120 pointsby breve10 hours ago9 comments
  • hamdingers9 hours ago
    I maintain the belief that Boring Company's purpose, first and foremost, is to confuse and derail (pun intended) local efforts to build real transit.

    Anything they do happen to build is incidental to that goal, and as such it's unsurprising that actual construction would be a shitshow.

    • alexose9 hours ago
      The original stated goal was to 10x the speed of existing tunnel boring machines by bringing up the cutting head RPMs, automating liner installation, and speeding up spoil removal with electric sleds. Which would seem like a good bet, except that there are a million other bottlenecks to the process. On top of that, it doesn't seem like they even solved their core problems.

      It would be cool if they'd post a postmortem or something, but I get the impression that reporting bad news is a good way to get fired in an Elon-run organization.

      • screye7 hours ago
        Much like the Hyperloop before it, the core assumption of the Boring company is ill-conceived. Tunnel boring isn't a bottleneck.

        The costs of surveys, hvac, seismic research and maintenance required to keep a deep-underground tunnel going are much higher than cut-and-cover. So, even if tunnel boring was free, it still wouldn't make sense to prefer it over other options. There are very scenarios where deep-tunneling makes sense (dense cities, across rivers when bridges are infeasible), but they're the minority.

        In most transit projects, cut-and-over is blocked not because it's a bad technical option. It's because NIMBYs refuse to permit on-the-ground disruptions or noise of any type. San Jose is the canonical example. It's a political problem, not a technical one.

      • bryanlarsen7 hours ago
        My impression was that the main "innovation" was using sewer tunnel sized tunnels for cars. We already know how to build sewer tunnels relatively cheaply and quickly.
      • DrewADesign8 hours ago
        I get the sense that the goalposts get moved to wherever he kicks the ball, even retrospectively. His whole vibe feels like he’s just real-life cosplaying Ironman.
      • quickthrowman9 hours ago
        I’m not sure why anyone believed this load of lies, tunnel boring is a mature industry with multiple companies that make tunnel boring machines, and tunnel boring has been around for well over a hundred years. The cutting heads move slowly because they’re between 3 and ~50 feet in diameter (1 to 15 meters for non Americans)

        Anyone claiming they can 10x the speed of a physical process that has been worked on by thousands of engineers over more than a century is full of shit. Anyone who bought that explanation is either far too credulous or just doesn’t understand what it takes to bore a large diameter tunnel.

        • jstanley8 hours ago
          > Anyone claiming they can 10x the speed of a physical process that has been worked on by thousands of engineers over more than a century is full of shit.

          Metal machining processes had been around for well over 100 years when tungsten carbide tooling came along, and that increased cutting speeds by 10x over HSS. It happens.

          • XorNot8 hours ago
            Sure but no one founded companies saying they were going to do exactly that until they actually had tungsten carbide tooling in hand and it was a production engineering issue.

            What technology or research was the Boring company sitting on that it expected to utilize to get this advantage?

            • potato37328428 hours ago
              You can't actually assess these things without hindsight. At any given time there's a dozen promising looking things but most of them never work out.

              Lithium batteries were "coming soon" for like 30yr.

              • XorNot7 hours ago
                Which isn't the question: what promising things was the Boring company looking at? Not what they said they wanted to achieve, how were they planning on doing it?

                Lithium batteries at all points were quite specific "we think <process> will reduce costs and make them viable".

          • quickthrowman8 hours ago
            Tunnel boring is only partly about boring the tunnel itself, bracing the tunnel and removing the spoils probably take as much time as boring the tunnel itself.

            It’s a complex process with work crews, management layers, multiple subcontractors, multiple stakeholders, etc. Replacing the tool on a CNC mill with a tungsten carbide tool takes what, a few minutes? Assuming you already have the tool.

            It’s also insanely easy to verify a tungsten carbide CNC tool is 10x faster at cutting metal than high speed steel vs. testing ‘This tunnel boring machine will be 10x faster.’

            One takes minutes, the other takes years.

        • 9cb14c1ec08 hours ago
          Space launch is a mature industry with multiple companies. Anyone who thinks SpaceX can lower the launch costs by orders of magnitude is either far to credulous or just doesn't understand what it takes to launch a rocket.
    • Qem9 hours ago
      They should rebrand Screwing Company.
      • iancmceachern8 hours ago
        This is my favorite HN comment of the year. Thank you.
      • 9 hours ago
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    • cowsandmilk9 hours ago
      That this is being built instead of “Let’s Move Nashville” is a shame.
    • youngtaff9 hours ago
      > I maintain the belief that Boring Company's purpose, first and foremost, is to confuse and derail (pun intended) local efforts to build real transit.

      Well that was the purpose of the Hyperloop too

      • hamdingers9 hours ago
        Same strategy at different scales, Boring Company is to local transit what Hyperloop is to regional.

        The original proposal was squarely aimed at disrupting CAHSR, but existing bureaucratic dysfunction is more than sufficient to prevent anything being built at that scale in the US, so Hyperloop was proven unnecessary and abandoned.

    • travoc9 hours ago
      Which transit effort did they derail in Nashville? There was nothing on the horizon.
  • neilv9 hours ago
    > [...] when multiple employees reported that a representative of The Boring Company was soliciting them to bail on Shane and work directly for TBC [...]

    > [...] noting that many prospective employees won’t work on the project because of Musk’s reputation.

    It's a sad situation, but great to see workers being smart: knowing who deserves loyalty, and who is not to be trusted.

  • drbojingle10 hours ago
    Come with me And you'll see A world of OSHA violations
    • zzrrt9 hours ago
      TFW you realize real-life Tony Stark is actually Willy Wonka.
      • jzb9 hours ago
        Musk is Justin Hammer.
        • bdcravens7 hours ago
          I guess that the Tony Stark of this world is Wang Chuanfu (CEO of BYD)
  • Havoc9 hours ago
    xAI notched up EPA violations for running a mountain of gas turbines illegally

    Tesla collects a variety of regulatory violations like they're paid for it.

    SpaceX...OSHA, FAA, EPA

    Boring company...

    etc.

    • DrewADesign8 hours ago
      Yeah the fines are designed to provide incentive to operate like you value your worker’s and others’ humanity even if you don’t have the humanity to really do it. It’s useful because our business economy mostly incentivizes businesses to treat people like fungible economic units of potential profit and loss. If the business is run by someone more interested in stroking their ego rather than optimizing profit and loss, the whole thing breaks down. Yet another example of the real work not working like an economics thought experiment.
  • 9 hours ago
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  • delichon8 hours ago
    There is a high demand for negative reports on any organization affiliated with Elon Musk. It is unsurprising that a robust supply has developed for it. I got paid very slowly by Verizon once, and McKesson another time, but nobody cares. I'm perfectly willing to believe that Musk's companies are worse than usual in this regard, but I'll need something better than plural anecdotes. This isn't a court, and innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply. But neither does guilty until proven innocent.
  • ionwake9 hours ago
    I hate to moan, but in my professional career ( whatever that was) - nothing is more of a red flag than a missed payment
    • technojamin8 hours ago
      I thought those were part of "the normal course of business" (quoting VP of Boring Company).
  • SilverElfin9 hours ago
    The response from the Boring Company executive feels like gaslighting.

    > Buss later clarified that he does not believe The Boring Company has a “common” practice of missing payments to vendors, but rather missed payments happen sometimes during “the normal course of business.”

    I’m sure this small business owner spent a lot of time and effort trying to get this corrected, but got no cooperation from Boring Company. If Vice President Buss or others want to look trustworthy, they need to explain in a public post-mortem what happened, and how they’ll avoid it going forward, and how they’re making this company whole including for their lost time.

    > The final straw that caused Shane to pull his crew from the site was when multiple employees reported that a representative of The Boring Company was soliciting them to bail on Shane and work directly for TBC on Monday.

    And this is just deeply unethical. They’re basically holding a fraudulent business relationship with the purpose of poaching employees, it seems like.

    • jerlam8 hours ago
      I believe Twitter (after the Musk purchase) also regularly refused to pay its bills: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/09/musks-unpaid-bil...
    • toss19 hours ago
      So, the Greediest Person In The World [0] also cheats subcontractors and workers out of their pay, and poaches employees — who would have guessed?

      [0] a far more accurate way to describe those who hoard wealth without helping the people or society who got them there, vs the usual praise as the "richest"

  • Cheyana10 hours ago
    He should have thought more about the liar at the top when he considered reputation.