Regular and non-regular types are however a basic idea that transcends languages. I can write a snippet in Python too:
import copy
from some.random.module.on.pypi import foo
a = foo()
b = copy.copy(a)
assert a == b
There are better choices if everything is built from scratch, but changing wheels from a running car isn't easy.
See also:
* https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2002/n13... move designs
The real value of std::move is cases where you to HAVE to (effectively) make a deep copy, but still want to avoid the inefficiency. std::move supports this because moving means "stealing" the value from one variable and giving it to another. A common use case is move constructors for objects where you need to initialize the object's member variables, and can just move values passed by the caller rather than copying them.
Another important use case for std::move is returning values from functions, where the compiler will automatically use move rather than copy if available, allowing you to define functions returning large/complex return types without having to worry about the efficiency.
Given the limits of C, "adopting" a pointer variable would just mean that the foster-parent now had a copy of the pointer, and was considered owner of it, now responsible for freeing it too presumably. It's basically a move, except the source can now mess things up by still using the adopted value after the adoption.
It defaulted to pass-by-value, with shallow copy semantics, as opposed to pass by reference.
You COULD define you own type where the copy constructor did something other than deep copy (i.e. something other than copy!), just as you could choose to take a hand gun and shoot yourself in the foot.
> For non-union class types, the constructor performs full member-wise copy of the object's direct base subobjects and member subobjects, in their initialization order, using direct initialization. For each non-static data member of a reference type, the copy constructor binds the reference to the same object or function to which the source reference is bound.
Would you call this deep or shallow? I think most would call it a shallow copy.
So for example, if your class has members whose type is any of the STL container types (std::list, vector, map, set,etc) then you will get a deep copy since that is how those types behave.
The semantics of a reference as part of a class are whatever you choose to make them. Is the reference referring to something within the class, maybe initialized in the constructor, or is it referring to something external such as a global variable perhaps? It's up to you to define your constructors according to the semantics of how you are using the reference. If you don't provide a copy constructor then the default member-wise copy would indeed just make a copy of the reference, which would be the right thing if you were using the reference to point to something global, but would be a bug in your code (missing copy constructor) if you needed it to refer to something in the copied class.
Raw pointers in classes are much the same. How are you using the pointer, and what does that mean that your copy constructor needs to do? Just like with the reference example, the default member-wise copy will only be correct if you are using the pointer to point to something not owned by the containing class, and just want the copy to point to the same thing. If the pointer is an owning reference to something allocated on the heap, then maybe you would want the copy to allocate it's own storage and copy the contents, but only you would know that.
The semantics of smart pointers are more clear cut, which is why they are to be preferred in modern C++ code. A std::unique_ptr simply can't be copied, so you would be forced to write a copy constructor to handle it. The default member-wise copy of a std::shared_ptr will just invoke it's copy constructor resulting in the copy pointing to the same object, now with an increased reference count.
Long story short, if you are writing modern C++, using STL container types, then a copy is a deep copy. If you are writing your own container types using pointers, or implementing your own copy constructors, then "copy" means whatever you have chosen it to mean.
At the end of the day C++ copy (incl. pass-by-value) does whatever the copy constructors of the types you are using does, which is going to be a combination of the "copy" semantics of the standard library's types, plus that of your own types.
Obviously you could choose to write a copy constructor that violates what most reasonable people might expect of "copy" semantics, but this is going to be rare, and I think conceptualizing C++ copy as "deep/recursive copy" holds up well even if pointers (smart or raw) are involved.
The problem with the object concept is that there are many ways to partition all the data in a program into distinct objects. But types and object models need you to decide on one way of looking at the world, and it wants you to see the world like that throughout the codebase.
Taking copying as a specific example, there may well be more than one useful way of copying stuff. The best way to achieve what you need depends not only on functional factors but also non-functional factors (such as performance and concurrency for example). The more serious and involved a program gets, the more apparent it becomes that there is not one way to copy. And the harder and more arbitrary it becomes to single out one way of copying that should be "blessed" with a special syntax.
It's an arbitrary choice to single out a blessed way to copy, and that is also a choice against a lot of other useful ways to copy stuff. Having one blessed way makes a few things easier, but makes everything more complicated. There is now one way to copy that gets done quite implicitly using syntax, which draws on a mountain of special C++ semantics, and there are other ways that must be done using regular function calls. The end result is something that is more complex than just always making regular freestanding functions that do the thing that you want done.
(What copy routine will be chosen implicitly by syntax/semantics is mostly predicated on types, so you can always opt to add wrapper types to accomodate other ways of doing things. Now try wrapping the members inside the thing that you want copied, working against all the implicit semantics... that must be about the point where the boilerplate becomes unbearable, where C++ gets much more verbose and unreadable than just straightforward C).
The downside of always using function calls is that you can't profit from all the built-in implicit semantics stuff, but as said there is always a theshold of program complexity beyond which that stops being useful because there's much more stuff that the program needs to do that cannot profit from it.
If you are writing a custom type with a custom copy constructor then of course you can implement whatever copy semantics you want to, but that is a strength of the language not a weakness. You can implement new types whose behavior is fully controlled by yourself.
Exactly, that's what I do. Now notice that there is not a good incremental way to go from this object model stuff, to a toolbox that lets you build many more routines out of reusable primitives (implemented mostly as POD structs and freestanding functions). It becomes worse if one has also made a lot of use of these silly access protectors, public/protected/private.
Which means that, when you start out with the C++ object model, and evolve the codebase, you are invariably going to paint yourself into a corner, and proceeding requires first undoing all the fluffy object stuff.
That's not some furious ranting disconnected from reality on my end. I've seen it many times in practice. Show me any large complex serious systems codebase that makes extensive use of that silly implicit stuff, where all the important function calls are basically out of your control, hidden in the "whitespace"... no, that's not the way to write a complex program. It doesn't work.
For balance, I concede that even large programs can use some self-contained container types, like std::vector, or even custom built ones. That's where the object model still works -- small, isolated stuff. However, as you scale, you tend to not include many isolated types. You program probably needs a good grip of memory allocation for example.
C++ is a massive language, that has really grown too big, and is fraying at the edges. This is probably the fate of any old language - it either keeps growing adding more modern features, or it stops growing and becomes obsolete. It's hard to always add new features while retaining backwards compatibility, but backwards compatibility is what users demand, so the result is languages like C++ that are screaming for the feature set to be refactored and simplified...
Using C++ well is requires knowing when it's appropriate, or not appropriate, to use the features it provides!
I think it's a mistake to associate C++ classes with object-orientated design or some program-wide high level design choice. A better way to think of them is just as custom types, and as a convenient packaging of data and and the functions (class methods) that works on the type/data.
In fact using OO concepts such as inheritance, and god forbid multiple inheritence, in C++ is generally a bad idea unless you have a very specific reason for doing so. You shouldn't have the mindset of "I'm using C++, so my classes should be using inheritance". In general keep your class hierarchies as flat as possible, and most of the time you don't want inheritance at all - you are just creating a packaging of data + associated methods.
Of course there is also nothing stopping you from combining classes with methods with additional global functions that work with those classes, but it would be advisable if they only did so using methods provided by the class, rather than having class data members declared public and letting things outside the class modify them.
The point* of classes - packaging data and the methods that work on the data together - is to support easy and localized future changes. If your class data members are private and only operated on by class methods, then you can change the data members however you like and users of the class will not be affected.
Used properly, C++ classes are an enabler for writing large complex projects that are easy to maintain. If using classes is impacting the design of your project, then it really means you are using them in the wrong way.
Edit:
* Well, one point. The other main point/value is the support of constructors and destructors so that your classes/structs are guaranteed to be initialized and destroyed. You don't need to remember to call an initialization function, or need to worry about code that throws exceptions and therefore has many paths where structure cleanup/destruction would be needed - the destructor will always be called when the object goes out of scope.
In C++ the compiler generated copy constructors are shallow, not deep, meaning that if you want a copy to reconstruct the object being pointed to, you can not use the default copy constructor but need to supply your own explicit copy constructor to do so.
In C a structure passed by value will just be shallow-copied.
In C++ a structure/class passed by value will by copied using whatever copy constructor is defined by the structure type. If there is no explicitly defined copy constructor, then a default copy constructor will be used that does member-wise copy using the member's copy constructors.
So, unless you have chosen to shoot yourself in the foot by defining a class who's copy constructor doesn't do a deep copy, then C++ pass-by-value will indeed do a deep copy.
The case of a structure with a pointer member (e.g. maybe you defined your own string class) is certainly one where you would need to define an appropriate copy constructor, and not doing so would indeed be shooting yourself in the foot.
You either are misspeaking, deeply confused, or quite possibly both.
Do you agree that the copy constrictors of the C++ standard library (STL) all do deep copy?
Do you agree that if you write your own class with a raw pointer member, you would need to write a copy constructor?
So, what exactly are you disagreeing about ?!
You seem to be saying that if you wrote a C-style structure (no constructors) with a pointer member, then C++ would behave like C, which is true, but irrelevant. We're talking about C++ vs C, but since C++ is a superset of C, then yes you can still screw yourself C-style if you choose to.
C++ is an incredibly complex language that it's almost never the case that you can make a categorical statement this simple and have it be true or false.
In C++, pass by value may or may not make use of a copy constructor depending on a set of very complex rules. For example passing an rvalue by value for a class type which defines a move constructor may use the move constructor rather than the copy constructor (emphasis on may because even that isn't guaranteed). Passing an lvalue for a class type may or may not invoke the copy constructor depending on specific language rules regarding copy elision. For fundamental types, there is no copy constructor whatsoever.
>Do you agree that the copy constrictors of the C++ standard library (STL) all do deep copy?
I absolutely do not agree with this, in fact believing so is absurd and I can't possibly fathom what would lead you to believe this. The principle the C++ standard uses for copying objects is based on Alexander Stepanov's "Elements of Programming" where he defines the concept of a regular type. A regular type does not require making a deep or a shallow copy, what it requires is that copies satisfy the following:
The copy must preserve equivalence (if a == b, then copy(a) == copy(b)).
The copy must be idempotent in meaning.
Copying must not have side effects on the source.
So as an example a std::string_view can be copied, but making a copy of it is constant O(1) in both time and space. What is required is that after performing a copy, the original source remains unchanged, operator == returns true between the source and the copy, and that making a copy is an idempotent operation.
You can extend this further for other collections as well, a std::vector<Foo*> does not end up making deep copies of the pointers being contained, what it does do is satisfy the conditions for being a regular type.
>Do you agree that if you write your own class with a raw pointer member, you would need to write a copy constructor?
Absolutely not. Just sticking to the existing standard library types you have things like std::span, all of the iterator types which use pointers under the hood, std::initializer_list, std::string_view was already covered.
To be blunt, you're expressing a very superficial understanding of a very complex topic that's part of an even more complex language.
In general my advice is... never assume that things in C++ are as simple and straight forward as they appear. If you're using a subset of the language that works for you, great, like really good job and continue doing so and I absolutely don't want to discourage you from using the subet of C++ that works for your use case... but don't then confuse this subset for being representative of either the language as a whole or representative of the vast use cases that C++ belongs to and recognize that the advice you give which works so well for you may actually be really bad advice for someone else working within a different subset of the language.
Its not clear if you have any experience with C++ or you are just trolling.
Try using STL containers like std::list, vector, map, set and see how they behave. Or just read the documentation.
You bring up move vs copy constructors... which is irrelevant since a properly implemented move should give the same result as a copy other than the side effect of invalidating the source.
You bother to point out that fundamental types have no constructor. Thank you einstein.
> In general my advice is...
Worthless.
I was programming in C++ for over a quarter of a century, up to and including C++17, before I stopping a year ago.
I've written massive libraries and frameworks in C++ consisting of 10's of thousands of lines of code, and eagerly using all the latest language features as soon as a better way of doing things was supported.
You are just an ignorant twat.
If they are referring to static or external variables, then presumably the default member-wise "shallow" copy is what you want.
If your pointer is instead referring to some allocated storage, then presumably you do NOT want to just copy the pointer, but the language is not a mind reader - it doesn't know what your pointer means, and it supports copy constructors precisely so that you can implement whatever is needed. The language is giving you the tools to define how you want your pointer to be "copied"... it's your choice whether an exact "shallow" copy is appropriate, or whether you need to do something else.
This is one of many reasons why if you are trying to write modern C++ you should use C++ alternatives to C ones wherever they exist - use STL containers rather than writing your own, use smart pointers rather than raw ones, etc.
I couldn’t fathom starting a new project with whatever the current C++ is now.
As someone who grew up with modern C++, I can't even imagine going back to C++98 because it feels so incredibly verbose. Just compare how you iterate over a std::map and print its items in C++98 vs C++23:
// C++98:
for (std::map<std::string, int>::const_iterator it = m.begin(); it != m.end(); ++it) {
std::cout << it->first << ": " << it->second << "\n";
}
// C++23:
for (const auto& [key, value] : m) {
std::print("{}: {}\n", key, value);
}
- auto
- lambda functions and std::function
- move semantics
- std::unique_ptr and, to a lesser extent, std::shared_ptr
- variadic templates
- std::filesystem
- std::chrono
- std::thread, std::mutex, std::atomic, etc.
- a well-defined memory model for multi-threaded programs
- unordered containers
- structured bindings
- class template argument deducation
- std::format
- std::optional
- std::variant
- etc.But when you try to use all these funny features you're enumerating there for something serious, it will invariably end up in an overcomplicated slow compiling morass. Even just trying to make the types click for inserting something into a non-trivial templatized hashmap becomes a tedious act, and the IDE cannot help anymore either.
(Last issue I had was with catching some exception just to ignore it. Turned out catch(std::bad_alloc) doesn't work, you need write catch (std::bad_alloc&).)
I prefer writing simple C-style C++ where I write whole subsystems from scratch, and I can be very clear about the semantics from the start, design in what matters, and leave out what doesn't. Adding all the built-in object semantics baggage is too much overhead.
Modern C++ is easier and safer than it has ever been.
The biggest slight is simply that there are high quality alternatives.
You can still write things the old way, if you like.
everything has been going downhill since then. coincidence? i think not!
C++14:
- generalized lambda capture
- generic lambdas
- structured bindings
- init statement for if
- class template argument deduction (CTAD)
- std::string_view
- std::filesystem
- std::variant
- std::optional
- std::to_chars() and std::from_chars()
- std::format
- coroutines (makes ASIO code so much cleaner!)
- concepts
- std::span
- bit manipulation (<bit>)
- std::bind_front
- std::numbers (math constants)My only complaint is the verbosity, things like `std::chrono::nanonseconds` break even simple statements into multiple lines, and you're tempted to just use uint64_t instead. And `std::thread` is fine but if you want to name your thread you still need to get the underlying handle and call `pthread_setname_np`. It's hard work pulling off everything C++ tries to pull off.
Yes, but here we're getting deep into platform specifics. An even bigger pain point are thread priorities. Windows, macOS and Linux differ so fundamentally in this regard that it's really hard to create a meaningful abstraction. Certain things are better left to platform APIs.
// To lessen verbosity, try defining the following convenience aliases in a header:
using SystemClock_t = std::chrono::system_clock;
using SteadyClock_t = std::chrono::steady_clock;
using HighClock_t = std::chrono::high_resolution_clock;
using SharedDelay_t = std::atomic<SystemClock_t::duration>;
using Minutes_t = std::chrono::minutes;
using Seconds_t = std::chrono::seconds;
using MilliSecs_t = std::chrono::milliseconds;
using MicroSecs_t = std::chrono::microseconds;
using NanoSecs_t = std::chrono::nanoseconds;
using DoubleSecs_t = std::chrono::duration<double>;
using FloatingMilliSecs_t = std::chrono::duration<double, std::milli>;
using FloatingMicroSecs_t = std::chrono::duration<double, std::micro>;
```
That's one of my biggest issues with C++ today. Objects that can be moved must support a "my value was moved out" state. So every access to the object usually starts with "if (have-a-value())". It also means that the destructor is called for an object that won't be used anymore.
MSVC and the Clang static analyzer have a analysis checks for this too. Not sure about GCC.
It's worth remembering though that values can be reinitialized in C++, after move.
... because I gave up on C++ in 2011, after reading Scott Meyers excellent Effective C++. It made me realize I had no desire to use a language that made it so difficult to use it correctly.
As for this article, it really did de-mystify those strange foo&& things for me. I had no idea that they're functionally identical to references and that what C++ does with them is left up to convention. But I still felt like I had to fight against sanity loss from a horrid realization.
Does it lead to problems? Surely. Should all metods be virtual by default? Probably. Should there be some keyword that indicates in derived class that a method intentionally shadows a non virtual method from the base class? Yes.
It's not a great human oriented design but it's consistent.
https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/rule_of_three.htm...
The confusion kind of speaks for itself. The language is a construction set where the primary building block is razor blades.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Magical_Number_Seven,_Plus...
and alluding to the fact that besides the well-established "Rule of 5" (copy construction and assignment, move construction and assignment, and destruction) a C++ class author also needs to at least think about whether to provide: default constructor, ADL swap, equality comparison operator, and/or specialized std::hash. And maybe a few more I'm forgetting right now.
In hindsight (without rewatching it right now) I remember my thesis in that talk as erring too much on the side of "isn't this confusing? how exciting! be worried about the state of things!" These days I'd try harder to convey "it's not really that hard; yes there are a lot of customization knobs, but boring rules of thumb generally suffice; newbies shouldn't actually lose sleep over this stuff; just remember these simple guidelines."
So, the best advice is: Don't mess with the razor blades. And these days, C++ gives you enough in the standard library to avoid messing with them yourself. But since this is C++, you _can_ always open up the safety casing and messing with things, if you really want to.
I say unfortunately because this doesn’t scale. A junior programmer doesn’t have the time to process 30 years of C++’s historical development.
Mathematics (which has a much longer history and the same pedagogical problem) gets around this by consolidating foundations (Bourbaki-style enriched set theory -> category theory -> homotopy type theory, perhaps?) and by compartmentalization (a commutative algebraist usually doesn’t care about PDEs and vice versa).
I don’t see C++ taking either route, realistically.
I also wonder if most junior C++ programmers can shortcut a bit by just using common patterns. Articles like these I’ve always thought were geared more toward experienced programmers who are intellectually curious about the inner workings of the language.
In particular you can most of the time define morphisms between concepts.
But it has been taking the "compartmentalization" route: Once a new, nicer/safer/terser idiom to express something in code emerges, people being taught the language are directed to use that, without looking into the "compartment". Some of this compartmentalization is in the language itself, some in the standard library, and some is more in the 'wild' and programming customs.
It's true, though, that if you want to write your own library, flexibly enough for public use - or otherwise cater to whatever any other programmer might throw at you - you do have to dive in rather deep into the arcane specifics.
> int&& rvalueRef = (int&&)x;
Why are they casting x here?
I have steadfastly avoided dealing with C++ for almost 30 years, and I am grateful that I did not have to. It seems like such a messy language with overloaded operators and symbols ( don't even get me started on Lambdas!)
Anyway C++ isn't as complicated as people say, most of the so called complexity exists for a reason, so if you understand the reasoning it tends to make logical sense.
You can also mostly just stick to the core subset of the language, and only use the more obscure stuff when it is actually needed(which isn't that often, but I'm glad it exists when I need it). And move semantics is not hard to understand IMO.
I think there was a comment on HN by Walter Bright, saying that at some point, C++ became too complex to be fully understood by a single person.
> You can also mostly just stick to the core subset of the language
This works well for tightly controlled codebases (e.g. Quake by Carmack), but I'm not sure how this work in general, especially when project owners change over time.
OK, let me ask this: what is "&&" ? Is it a boolean AND ? Where in that article is it explained what "&&" is, other than just handwaving, saying "it's an rvalue".
For someone who's used to seeing "&" as an "address of" operator (or, a pointer), why wouldn't "&&" mean "address of pointer" ?
> For someone who's used to seeing "&" as an "address of" operator (or, a pointer)
You must be talking about "&something" which takes the "address of something" but the OP does not talk about this at all. You know this because you wrote in your other comment ...
> And if this indeed the case, why is int&& x compatible with int& y ?
So you clearly understand the OP is discussing "int&&" and "int&". Those are totally different from "&something". Even a cursory reading of the OP should tell you these are references, not the "address of something" that you're probably more familiar with.
One is rvalue reference and the other is lvalue reference and I agree that the article could have explained it better what they mean. But the OP doesn't seem to be an introductory piece. It's clearly aimed at intermediate to advanced C++ developers. What I find confusing is that you're mixing up something specific like "int&&" with "&something", which are entirely different concepts.
I mean when have you ever seen "int&" to be "address of" or "pointer"? You have only seen "&something" and "int*" and "int**" be "address of" or "pointer", haven't you?
Problem: Whenever I'm dealing with X, I get tripped by Y.
Solution A: Don't deal with X.
Solution B: Understand Y, when dealing with X.
For && meaning, this article [1] is still very useful.
[1]: https://isocpp.org/blog/2012/11/universal-references-in-c11-...
So, basically, you're just trolling us about a language you avoid using. Thanks, that's very helpful.