20 pointsby JumpCrisscross2 days ago2 comments
  • FridayoLeary2 days ago
    If the future is electric then it's also going to be Chinese. There is much less difference between electric cars then ICE.

    But it's nice to see that old fashioned small minded politics isn't dead yet;

    >>Car buyers can claim subsidies of up to £3,750 on purchases of brands including Nissan, Peugeot and Vauxhall.

    >>But the scheme excludes Chinese-made vehicles due to the emissions produced in their manufacture.

    >>BYD has criticised the decision and said it would damage the UK's car market in the long-term.

    It looks like the way they are going to save the car industry in Europe and stopping it falling entirely into the hands of the Chinese is with.... tarrifs! (they're also quietly trying to work out how to extricate themselves from their blind rush towards electric, at least i hope they are.)

    • jesterson2 days ago
      > going to save the car industry in Europe and stopping it falling entirely into the hands of the Chinese is with.... tarrifs

      Europe has destroyed it's own car making industry. Extreme taxation, self-exclusion from usage of reasonably priced resources among things that buried it. While at the same time chinese focused on making their cars better. It's as simple as that.

      Now there is no way to stop chinese cars from penetrating markets. Tariffs will just buy some time. Eventually noone will buy expensive and crappy european cars.

      It's a sad conclusion for someone who dislike chinese cars and been benz user for few decades. My next car won't be benz and i fear it may be chinese huawei, as the current one spends more time in workshop while being a shadow of technological and design marvel .

    • like_any_other2 days ago
      > small minded politics

      China (and every other developed country for that matter) achieved its status by protecting their industries. And call it small-minded if you like, but when you're competing with someone taking full advantage of in-group preference (i.e. playing like a team), if you play solo, you will lose, miserably. Unite or die.

      • saxenaabhi2 days ago
        That's not true on the face of it. BYD overtook VW in chinese market only recently in 2024[1]. In fact what seem to enable chinese auto companies to become world leader was the fact that they were exposed to global competition from VW/Tesla/GM etc.

        I think you were pointing out chinese strategy to force auto makers to make JV like SAIC Volkwagen[2].

        While I'm not sure if that could work in west due to high cost of labour, regardless to me it seems the strategy behind these auto tariffs is to just shut chinese automakers out of the market at great harm to european consumer.

        [1] https://www.scmp.com/business/china-business/article/3287079...

        [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAIC_Volkswagen

        • like_any_other2 days ago
          > That's not true on the face of it.

          You're saying China doesn't protect and help their native industries? That's simply incorrect:

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_China_2025

          James K. Galbraith has stated that "free trade has attained the status of a god" and that " ... none of the world's most successful trading regions, including Japan, Korea, Taiwan, and now mainland China, reached their current status by adopting neoliberal trading rules." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage#Criticis...

          China imposes more trade and investment barriers, discriminatory taxes, and information security restrictions than any other country by a vast margin. - https://ecipe.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/DTE_China_TWP_R...

          As with most countries, China has adopted some policies aimed at protecting or promoting its domestic industries, including targeted quotas, subsidies to certain key industries and rejection of patents in critical industries. - https://www.rfa.org/english/news/afcl/fact-check-china-prote...

          > harm to european consumer.

          What about the European worker and the European citizen? As a European myself, I don't like being reduced to a mere consumer.

          • saxenaabhia day ago
            > You're saying China doesn't protect and help their native industries? That's simply incorrect:

            My point was they didn't not shut down their companies from foreign competition and that that's exactly what the EU commission is doing with these tariffs.

            > What about the European worker and the European citizen? As a European myself, I don't like being reduced to a mere consumer.

            European citizens would be fine given how much they like to import from china.

            Given the popularity of temu and other apps in europe, I don't think the general public wants to be fleeced by domestic industries/retailer and pay 12E for wine opener from esselunga v/s 1.7E on temu.

            As for the domestic workers and industries, they'll have to up their game and innovate to become efficient. It was embarrassing how bad VW's EV products were till a few years ago. Domestic industries can't just expect to hold consumers as captive and fleece them forever.

            If they can't good riddance.

            • like_any_other20 hours ago
              Yeah good riddance to self-reliance. When advocated for by Gandhi to enable Indian independence [1] it's enlightened and righteous. But when Europe wants it to avoid becoming a Chinese client state, it's "small-minded".

              > European citizens would be fine given how much they like to import from china.

              It's telling that your reply to my not wanting to reduce Europeans to mere consumers, does just that - saying they'll be fine because as consumers they'll be fine, ignoring all other considerations.

              [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swadeshi_movement

  • leakycap2 days ago
    I wish people would google things before they bought them. BYD is not a company I would buy from, no matter the price.
    • 0xblinqa day ago
      What's the alternative? Tesla? No thanks.
      • leakycap21 hours ago
        I also would not buy a Tesla. But I'm able to understand that there are more than two electric vehicle manufacturers, as well.
    • derelictaa day ago
      Why not? Quality seems alright, but I guess safety wise they don't meet all of our usual standards?
      • leakycap21 hours ago
        Quality is not alright, unfortunately.

        > Today, Mayor Tim Keller announced that the City of Albuquerque filed a lawsuit against Build Your Dreams for failure to meet contractual obligations and delivering unsafe buses to the City

        https://www.cabq.gov/mayor/news/mayor-tim-keller-byd-will-be...

        One of the issues was that there was no blockage/pressure sensor on the door/wheelchair ramps. I believe the city claimed the door closed with enough pressure mame someone. The busses couldn't hold a charge to even complete the daily bus routes that the city had ordered them for and when the city decided to add generators on the busses to make them last an entire day, my memory is that BYD said that would void the warranty - leaving the city with useless, unusable busses.

        This is one example. There are countless, and BYD is often the name mentioned in the articles I see going by.

      • 0xblinqa day ago
        Because of racism, probably
        • leakycap21 hours ago
          What a gross assumption

          Did you spend 3 seconds googling, or just assume because you're uninformed and someone says something you don't know, that person must be a racist?

          Here's ONE example. You know how to find more if you want to know:

          > The Brazilian authorities found that the [BYD] workers could not leave their dormitories without permission, [BYD workers] were forced to work long hours without weekly breaks, and [BYD workers] were deprived of wages and passports.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Brazil_working_conditions_...

          > [BYD workers] living quarters were overcrowded and lacked basic amenities, including sufficient toilets and refrigeration for food. Brazilian labour authorities stated that the [BYD] workers are victims of human trafficking.

          Your comment didn't deserve a reply, but I hope you learn some critical thinking skills so everything isn't just racism to you, as that won't get you anywhere.