168 pointsby hasheddan4 months ago25 comments
  • belthesar4 months ago
    For use cases like attaching to an SBC or really any other computer, I'm sure this is great, but there are also USB crash cart consoles that can be gotten pretty cheaply like the NanoKVM-USB[0] or Cytrence's KIWI[1]. This gets you both video, keyboard and mouse.

    [0] https://wiki.sipeed.com/hardware/en/kvm/NanoKVM_USB/introduc...

    [1] https://www.cytrence.com/product-page/cytrence-kiwi

    • yuvadam4 months ago
      Openterface Mini-KVM also works great [1]

      [1] - https://openterface.com/

      • mmetzger4 months ago
        This is my current pick - simple, works exactly as expected, very small. Only thing I ever fight with is remembering to accept Mac OS's warning about connecting a USB device.

        For just video (or w/ separate keyboard/mouse), the Genki Shadowcast devices work really well.

    • rahimnathwani4 months ago
      Is there anywhere I can buy a NanoKVM-USB? The page you linked has a 'preorder' page linked, but I'm not sure how long I'd have to wait and whether it's an actual product that people have successfully used.
      • mwpmaybe4 months ago
        I see them on Amazon, sold by WayPonDEV. I've bought several NanoKVM brand devices from them and haven't had any problems (yet).
      • galaxy_gas4 months ago
        GLI Comet is much better from my experience.
        • rahimnathwani4 months ago
          Can GLI Comet allow my laptop to control a device without needing a network connection?

          That seems to be what NanoKVM-USB does. But GLI Comet seems to be KVM-over-IP?

          • galaxy_gas4 months ago
            I use Comet in remote field by plug the ethernet it expects to the laptop. Both will set up the link local IP and accessible in browser without internet
          • all24 months ago
            You might be able to use something like usbipd to forward the USB port from your target machine?
        • mwpmaybe4 months ago
          Different use-cases. The Sipeed product comparable to the GL-RM1 is the NanoKVM Cube. Comparable to the GL-RM10 is the NanoKVM Pro (Desk).

          (Of course you could use the Cube on a crash cart, too. Just like you can use the butt of a screwdriver to hammer a nail.)

      • chazeon4 months ago
        Aliexpress has them
    • crimsontech4 months ago
      I use a Cytrence Kiwi myself, really handy bit of kit, I just wish it could do higher resolution, even if it meant dropping the frame rate.

      I also have a PiKVM with the switch for network level access which works really well too.

    • EvanAnderson4 months ago
      Is there a VGA "story" for these devices? Most of the Dell and HP servers I'm physically proximate to don't have HDMI video. VGA connectors abound on the gear I work with.
      • detaro4 months ago
        worst case a VGA-to-HDMI adapter, they are less than 20 bucks but extra box/cables of course.
        • EvanAnderson4 months ago
          I've had poor luck with the couple of VGA-to-HDMI I've ever used over the years (latency, poor video quality) so I guess my question was more "Are there any known-working good adapters for VGA for these?"
          • numpad04 months ago
            There shouldn't be more than few lines of delays in cheap VGA->HDMI adapters, they don't even come with one full frame worth of RAM.
          • mwpmaybe4 months ago
            > I've had poor luck with the couple of VGA-to-HDMI I've ever used over the years

            Yes, they're terrible, but...

            > latency, poor video quality

            For a crash cart? Who cares. For everything else...

            > Are there any known-working good adapters for VGA for these?

            No, you're AOL.

      • youyoubilly4 months ago
        [dead]
    • craftkiller4 months ago
      Those both look very nice, but I am disappointed that neither lists support for DP alt-mode as an input despite having a type-c port on the input side. If I were to buy such a device, I'd want it be future-proof while also supporting legacy video input like HDMI, but these are legacy-only. Good for my old raspberry pis and my ancient sandybridge NAS, but these days I only buy computers capable of single-cable operation (with exceptions for power cables for power-hungry devices like desktops).
      • belthesar4 months ago
        I feel like this is kind of looking a gift horse in the mouth, especially for the cost of these units. Certainly not impossible to add, but an increase in the BOM vs. the loads of off-the-shelf super cheap HDMI capture chips available, and questionable compatibility (DP Alt Mode is getting better, but plenty of devices still have interesting quirks with it depending on implementation). These devices aren't made with daily driving a system in mind so much as for installation and recovery of a system.

        Would it be handy to have this all in one cable on both ends? Sure, absolutely, that'd be killer. I personally don't think it's too big of an ask to use two cables in an installation or recovery case though, and if your devices only have USB-C ports for video out, an active USB-C to HDMI via DP-Alt cable can be had to meet that need.

    • mwpmaybe4 months ago
      Came here to endorse the NanoKVM USB. It's a great little device. Wendell made a video[0] on it. The web interface is super handy.

      I keep one in my tool bag and I've been meaning to buy a second one for a dedicated crash cart.

      I can't speak to the Kiwi or the Openterface as I haven't tried those.

      0. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAbyQcpR-yQ

  • thesandlord4 months ago
    If you have an iPad with a USB-C port, you can use the free Orion app to do this too

    https://orion.tube/

    • rahimnathwani4 months ago
      My son uses the Genki Studio app on his iPad. It works well enough without payment.

      https://apps.apple.com/us/app/genki-studio/id6466343285

      I don't know how Orion compares.

      The home page says the one-time IAP unlocks 'AI-powered 4k upscaling', which sounds useful.

      • dylan6044 months ago
        > The home page says the one-time IAP unlocks 'AI-powered 4k upscaling', which sounds useful.

        To what end? For displaying on a tablet only? Does it provide screen capture to save that 4k version?

        • rahimnathwani4 months ago
          iPads have high resolution screens.

          Cheap USB capture devices usually support a maximum of 1080p@60Hz output. If you buy a random '4k' USB capture device, it probably supports up to 4k input but then scales it down to 1080p for output.

          So perhaps 4k upscaling on the ipad will make the image look better.

        • bombcar4 months ago
          I presume this software has two users → those wanting to read text on a server, and those wanting to use their iPad as a screen to watch movies from a DVD or similar player.

          The second may like upscaling.

    • MBCook4 months ago
      I did that just last week to install Linux on a micro-PC I have. Its only display output is HDMI and I didn’t want to unplug it and move it over to my TV just for the short time necessary to install a base system + SSH.

      Worked great!

      I’ve used the app for other things too. It’s a great solution if you already have an iPad.

    • hasperdi4 months ago
      Does anyone know anything similar for Android?
  • jmmv4 months ago
    > digging up an HDMI monitor, finding somewhere to put it, and connecting it to the device is an annoying process. Furthermore, if I’m on the go I almost certainly don’t have easy access to an external monitor.

    This has annoyed me many times as well with the headless computers I run... until recently, when I bought a USB-powered 7-inch HDMI monitor for an embedded project that didn't go anywhere. But now I have a spare little monitor that I can easily use in these situations and even carry it around if necessary.

    • bombcar4 months ago
      Those tiny HDMI monitors are soooooo useful in so many situations, especially if they do pass-through.

      I like https://feelworld.ltd/collections/5-6-inch-camera-monitor/pr... or similar, $100.

      I use it for projection - then I can run the projector as a second monitor through this thing (or similar) and not have to use binoculars to see what's on the screen from the back of the room.

      Larger ones can be used as portable second monitors, too.

    • wzdd4 months ago
      Exactly. I do quite a bit of dev on larger SBCs and it's much easier and more reliable to plug in a small HDMI monitor (powered through the USB) than it is to faff around with HDMI capture dongles, let alone networked KVM. The one I bought (on eBay, nothing special) has a wrap-around vinyl case which works rather like an iPad case in that it can function as a stand or as a screen cover, so you can just chuck it in a bag. Admittedly, it cost more than a capture card (I think it was around $70 USD in eBay), but that's still sufficiently cheap that if it and when it breaks I will not be devastated.

      USB capture devices introduce latency, get surprisingly hot, can have frame rate issues, and streaming video from them seems much more CPU-intensive than, for example, playing an equivalent-sized h.264 video (I don't know why but presume it's because they encode using something basic like MJPEG). A portable display has none of these problems.

    • blensor4 months ago
      You may be interested in this then https://github.com/mgschwan/viture_virtual_display

      Or now that I think of it, just use the glasses with a regular hdmi adapter ( but no 3dof tracking then )

    • dgfitz4 months ago
      I was stuck in a very remote location trying to update vehicle software. I needed both a monitor and keyboard (long story, serial wasn't outputting, no ssh, partition table was hosed) and I had neither a keyboard nor a monitor.

      I now carry a little HDMI screen and not one but two portable keyboards with me for all work travel. One of the keyboards is a larger but rolls up, the other is tiny but also has a mouse built into a touchpad.

      These devices have saved my bacon more than a few times. Highly recommend.

  • Lerc4 months ago
    I have been looking at things like this and wondered if there is scope for an open source project to design boards that provide power and data access to a variety of common old laptop panels (and keyboard+touchpads) along with a holder for a compute module. Then let people lay out the location of their USB ports etc. in the shape of the motherboard of their old laptop and get one run off by JLCPCB or PCBWay

    I have several old laptops that still have good screens and keyboards, It would be nice to repurpose some of them. They are certainly large enough to house a compute module with plenty of extras.

    • fmj4 months ago
      I'd definitely be interested in a project like that, but I think customizing a PCB layout and sending it off for manufacturing would be too much for many people that would otherwise be interested in it. I think a project like that would gain more traction if it focused on designing high quality boards for a few popular laptop models (MacBooks or ThinkPads IMO) and making those available via on demand manufacturing and/or crowdsourcing a bulk run.
  • frankus4 months ago
    This would have been super helpful like 20 years ago when I was on the data center floor trying to debug rack-mount (headless) Linux servers. The center had like one KVM "crash cart" that needed to be plugged into a spare outlet in the rack that wasn't always easy to come by.

    I'm sure we could have improved on that setup but we were an inexperienced skeleton crew on a shoestring budget and not the best management.

    I always thought it would be great to have a "laptop without a motherboard" to manage these, and this is close enough given the price of the redundant hardware now.

    • axiolite4 months ago
      > I always thought it would be great to have a "laptop without a motherboard"

      That's basically what a rack console is. At 1U it was skinnier than laptops from prior decades. They're not exactly a laptop form factor, but to get them smaller you would have had to accept a much lower screen resolution, which would risk some systems not being able to display (e.g. your server may have booted-up to 1280x1024 while your laptop could only do 800x600), or would have needed to be quite expensive to add an ultra-high DPI screen.

      Still, at various times there were briefly devices like that available for purchase at closeout prices... like the failed "Motorola ATRIX lapdock":

      https://www.cnet.com/reviews/motorola-laptop-dock-review/

      https://www.amazon.com/AT-Laptop-Dock-Motorola-ATRIX/dp/B004...

      I'd say the USB-HDMI capture card is a better solution all-around. I even prefer it to USB "crash carts" because you aren't dependent on the manufacturer keeping their proprietary software software updated for each subsequent Windows/Linux/Mac release.

    • bombcar4 months ago
      We actually HAD literally that - I don't recall which model it was, but someone found a laptop that internally had PS/2 and VGA I believe, and had rewired it to have cables hanging out of it.

      Advantage - battery still somewhat worked so you could get a few minutes (often all you needed) with just that.

  • ius4 months ago
    Note most (all?) video players introduce quite some playback latency by default due to buffering - which is _really_ annoying using them as a 'monitor'.

    You'll want to look up the flags/settings for low latency playback to make it more usable, e.g. for mpv: https://mpv.io/manual/stable/#low-latency-playback

  • rupas4 months ago
    I've used a few of these KVM products. Some quick thoughts:

    ipkvm, I really like my 2 JetKVMs. It works very well, physically feels substantial, and the ATX power add-on makes remote management as good as any IPMI solution. I also have a sipeed NanoKVM and that works well, but I don't use it much at this point, just use the JetKVMs instead.

    For usb KVM I'm trying to find something that works as a KVM so that I can use the nice display on my home computer but also control my work laptop. This is purely a convenience thing. I'm not trying to use the work laptop remotely or fool my employer. I just prefer my 4k oled display on my personal thinkpad over the crap 1080p dell display on the work laptop.

    So I've tried two usb USB kvms.

    Cytrence Kiwi - this is the one I settle on to use. The software works well and has had regular updates. It does keyboard capture which I never could get to work with the NanoKVM. The video quality is much better. Except for the inability to capture alt-tab is my only real complaint. :( However, they just (yesterday?) released a new software build that can map another set of keys to alt-tab. Maybe I can train my fingers to do windows-tab or something similar.

    NanoKVM-USB - This one has some good ideas. I like the form factor. I like the USB port you can easily switch between host and target to copy images or whatever. As a crash cart type thingie, this is probably just fine. However, as stated above. Trying to use it full time with my work laptop was simply too frustrating. Video quality and lack of keyboard capture (maybe I just couldn't find it) just made it impossible.

    So, in summary: JetKVM for ipkvm, cytrence kiwi for usbkvm.

  • 054 months ago
    I'm thinking a better solution for console would be an SSH to serial bridge using just a spare ESP32 and something like ESP32SerialSSHProxy[0]. Haven't tried myself yet, and there is suspiciously few stars on that repo, but that would be a nice lights out-ish management system for some hidden away home automation server.

    [0] https://github.com/programminghoch10/ESP32SerialSSHProxy

  • GuB-424 months ago
    I wonder why it hadn't been a built-in feature on some laptops.

    No software, just a built-in hardware kvm exposing the screen, keyboard and pointing device to an external port.

    A niche thing, but it shouldn't be expensive to implement, and the ports are already here (usb-c, hdmi).

    • axiolite4 months ago
      > A niche thing, but it shouldn't be expensive to implement, and the ports are already here (usb-c, hdmi).

      A Display Controller Board for driving a laptop screen from an external input is going to add at least $20 to the price of the laptop. Considerably more expensive than the $6 USB-HDMI capture devices which do the job (and have more utility).

      The HDMI output port on your laptop (if you even have one, many only offer miniDP) can't just be run in reverse. The board would need to be updated to allow switching it between output and input, at considerable extra cost.

    • Cyykratahk4 months ago
      I owned an Alienware laptop (M17X R4) many years ago that had a dedicated HDMI input.

      It was a strange laptop. MXM socketed GPU, 120Hz screen that came with Nvidia 3DVision shutter glasses, and the worst battery life I've ever experienced.

    • m4634 months ago
      I saw a kind-of-laptop that did that.

      I think this might be it?

      https://gpdstore.net/blog/gpd-pocket-4-kvm-module-explained/

      or there is a similar one. It was a tiny laptop, the kind that a devops/sysadmin would carry around in a server room.

    • voidUpdate4 months ago
      I believe some alienware laptops used to do this https://youtu.be/Otln0Ao2z6M (Cathode Ray Dude video)
  • PaulHoule4 months ago
    Reminds me years ago of having a Nintendo Gamecube but no actual TV and just playing it on a computer with a TV capture card.
    • thesandlord4 months ago
      I played all of KOTOR2 on Xbox using a capture card without sound. Good times.
  • exasperaited4 months ago
    I too own no external monitors and do my dev/CAD/photography stuff on one of three laptops (macOS, linux, windows 11) [0] depending on where I am, and as much of my writing/planning on my now quite old iPad Pro away from said devices as possible.

    So I use one of those cheap HDMI capture devices that flooded eBay about three months into the pandemic to watch Raspberry Pi boot logs or function as ad-hoc console monitor, either with my MBP or with the iPad Pro. The iPad Pro functions usefully as an occasional second monitor for the MBP more directly with USB-C/wifi, of course, so it all works out rather well.

    [0] mostly macOS, though I am finally building up a desktop linux escape strategy, 31 years after I first ran X on linux, which might get finally kicked up a notch depending on what happens with Affinity at the end of the month

  • geokon4 months ago
    > However, sometimes direct physical access to the SBC with a monitor and keyboard is useful for initial configuration, maintenance operations, or workloads that have a visual component

    Shouldn't this be possible with a single direct ethernet link between laptop and device? I'm not actually sure on the specifics. Or would this require a router? I know you can forward graphical programs with X11 as well

    This is one of those rough edges that I wish a Linux distro got right. It's rare, but once in a blue moon you do want to hook up two laptop (say one broken and one working one) and control one from the other (without the ability to configure stuff)

  • 4 months ago
    undefined
  • password43214 months ago
    I mention https://www.aurga.com every time this comes up. Wireless HDMI, keyboard, and mouse to their app/desktop client for $95.

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45317527#45318263

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41138701#41140193

    • jacquesm4 months ago
      That says Linux is supported but apparently only on the input side, not on the viewer side.
  • crumpled4 months ago
    I saw a video of this guy (the github project author) using the Lilygo T-deck as a VNC console. It's a fun looking solution, but it requires wifi.

    https://github.com/moononournation/T-Deck/blob/main/ArduinoV...

  • jwr4 months ago
    I use this approach with a long-throw HDMI microscope, cheap ones are available on Aliexpress. I put one over my desk, and I get the output with reasonably low latency through a HDMI capture adapter on my computer screen. Very useful for electronics work or taking a closer look at stuff.
  • Thev00d004 months ago
    I brought a portable screen, which is basically a laptop panel powered by usb, works well.
  • CYR1X4 months ago
    Yes, $5 USB HDMI capture cards exist?
    • dlcarrier4 months ago
      There's off-the-shelf semiconductors that perform the conversion in hardware, so all the dongles need is a simple breakout board for the component.
    • RamRodification4 months ago
      Crazy times
    • actionfromafar4 months ago
      Usually slow
      • gsich4 months ago
        In what regard? The common Macrosilicon chip MS2130 has <100ms.
        • actionfromafar4 months ago
          10 fps isn’t great, latency wise. Even typing or using a mouse is very clunky.

          I may have been unlucky, but I have seen even worse.

          • gsich4 months ago
            Latency, not FPS. Still suitable for using it as KVM.
          • 4 months ago
            undefined
          • detaro4 months ago
            100ms latency, they do at least 30fps.
  • netsharc4 months ago
    Matthias Wandel demoed a "brainless laptop": a screen and keyboard that can be "mated" with a Raspberry Pi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFA7iAnYZMs
    • ramses04 months ago
      This is so close to perfect except that it doesn't charge over USB-C. I went down the rabbit hole a bit and found the UPerfect "Lapdock" which is just an incredible description of the concept.

      So many times I want to dork with a raspberry pi or start mucking with an old computer... the rpi400 is nearly useless "as is" because you generally require a mouse and then everything goes to hell as far as "single device" goes.

      The concept of a "mobile crash cart / workstation" in laptop form factor even makes this tempting as a "front end" for a Mac mini or something?!?

      Sooo many times I want to bring the K/V/M to the computer instead of the computer to the K/V/M.

  • kevmo3144 months ago
    Since there’s monitors that work over USB-C, could one replace the capture card and somehow get the laptop to pull video like a USB-C monitor?
    • numpad04 months ago
      Those USB-C display outputs are real raw GPU output patched through electronically, not like image over USB protocol. They just use the connector, and they can't be captured as USB data.
    • detaro4 months ago
      not really. The video stuff needs explicit hardware support, so the laptop would need to include what's essentially a capture card already. It'd be awesome if vendors did that, but to my knowledge nobody does.
  • datadrivenangel4 months ago
    You can also get an HDMI driver to turn the laptop screen into an HDMI monitor... Janky if you glue the board to the back of the screen.
    • whatever14 months ago
      And you have to find a driver compatible with your laptops lcd panel. Not straightforward.
      • userbinator4 months ago
        Nearly all LVDS ones are close enough that there's only a few common configurations. eDP is even simpler.
  • asplake4 months ago
    Anyone using a Intel iMac as a monitor for their much faster Apple CPU MacBook Pro? Wishing “target display mode” was still a thing…
    • mwpmaybe4 months ago
      You can modify the internal electronics to accomplish this. YouTuber Luke Miani did it a couple years ago. A quick google brings up a few guides including a couple user-contributed-but-ostensibly-QC'd guides on iFixit.
  • Havoc4 months ago
    You can do similar with an Android tablet and a usb adapter
  • hard_times4 months ago
    is there no vendor offering HDMI-in or Display Port-in?
    • rzzzt4 months ago
      Some Alienware laptops had an HDMI input: https://youtu.be/Otln0Ao2z6M?t=36
    • jollyllama4 months ago
      It always used to baffle me that there wasn't support for this (or the historic equivalent) 20 years ago.
      • dylan6044 months ago
        20 years ago it would have been prohibitively expensive.
        • jasongill4 months ago
          20 years ago (well, 25) it was actually more common than it is now - many computers in the late 90's to early 2000's came with video capture cards built in. The Sony VIAO for example, or some "multimedia" machines. The Hauppage WinTV cards and similar knockoffs were popular as well. I remember working on the Linux kernel modules/drivers for these types of cards (I want to say that the project was called "Video4Linux" or similar).

          Being able to "watch TV" on your computer used to be a somewhat popular request from well-to-do consumers, and as DVD's came out, people started wanting to digitize their VHS tapes, and video capture cards (the same concept as what the article is doing) allowed that.

          • numpad04 months ago
            Most of them only supported the yellow RCA video in, not VGA or DVI. Just the VGA/DVI to RCA adapter costed some amounts too(not $49).

            I think it was really right before COVID that HDMI capture devices finally dipped below $200. Then that Macro Silicon chip at $9 appeared out of the blue and solved PC video input problem. 20 years ago it indeed had been prohibitively expensive to capture desktop video outputs.

            The challenge was high bandwidth nature of raw display outputs. Just 1024x768 @ 60Hz is over 1Gbps without overheads. A capture device for that is not something that can be "just" made.

          • rkomorn4 months ago
            I had one! Watching TV on my desktop was great in the pre-streaming era.
    • EnigmaCurry4 months ago
      GPD Pocket 4
  • suddenlybananas4 months ago
    Now is there a way to use a laptop's keyboard as input as well?
    • chazeon4 months ago
      you can just buy a nanokvm