107 pointsby JumpCrisscross10 hours ago12 comments
  • bandyaboot9 hours ago
    The author seems to underestimate this Supreme Court’s willingness to make nakedly partisan rulings.

    Edit: oh here we go. Partisan first amendment issues were perfectly fine to discuss here when it was about Twitter. But, different ox being gored now, so we’re going to flag this into oblivion. Absolute frauds.

    • nick__m9 hours ago
      I would not blame dang for keeping that flagged. The quality of the one on Gaza was appalling, it must have been really hard to moderate one and this one wasn't going to be much better.
  • tptacek9 hours ago
    Just noodling on this:

    He has better-than-typical odds of clearing the standing hurdle. He was directly harmed, right.

    But he's going to have some pretty high evidentiary hurdles, right? Discovery may well turn up that Nextar pulled his shows preemptively, both because of political affiliation and because of an upcoming merger. They didn't need to be "jawboned", and there's not much indication that they were even contacted by the FCC.

    When the largest affiliate network in the country pulls your show, it's harder to make the case that ABC itself was responding directly to the FCC, which is what Kimmel will need to establish.

    These are positive and not normative arguments and my confidence level is extremely low.

    • xnx9 hours ago
      > there's not much indication that they were even contacted by the FCC

      Brendan Carr: "This is a very, very serious issue right now for Disney. We can do this the easy way or the hard way. These companies can find ways to take action on Kimmel, or there is going to be additional work for the FCC ahead."

      Nice merger you have planned there, sure would be a shame if something were to happen to it.

      • tptacek9 hours ago
        I agree there's lots of smoke, but he'll have to prove fire in court. The distinction this article is drawing is that he'll likely be able to see the inside of a courthouse if he pushes, because it's a case with such clear standing.
      • 4 hours ago
        undefined
    • hirsin9 hours ago
      There's at least the appearance of causation here, with the FCC Chairman publicly saying that broadcasters could get their licenses yanked if they didn't drop Kimmel, and later that suddenly occurring.

      https://www.cnn.com/2025/09/18/entertainment/abc-jimmy-kimme...

      I imagine a smoking gun will be demanded by this SCOTUS though, and this kind of stochastic "would be nice if someone..." pressure/threat will get a pass.

      • cosmicgadget8 hours ago
        As I understand it, a jury will determine whether this was a coincidence or mafia-style doublespeak and the courts will typically respect their finding of fact.
    • JumpCrisscross9 hours ago
      > he's going to have some pretty high evidentiary hurdles

      Hmm, with ABC or the government? (Can individuals claim damages in court against the government for First Amendment violations?)

      If it were found Carr was acting unconstitutionally, and thus clearly outside the colour of law, could he be found personally liable?

      (Side note: thank you, this is what I was hoping for when I posted this here.)

      • hackingonempty9 hours ago
        Yes, you can sue government officials for violating your well established constitutional rights.

        https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/1983

        • JumpCrisscross9 hours ago
          Oh, I really like this!
          • hackingonempty9 hours ago
            IANAL but I'm pretty sure there's massive amounts of litigation around this statute and the law is a lot more complex than it looks on its face.
            • JumpCrisscross9 hours ago
              There may honestly be a public interest in distracting as many of this administration’s officials as legally possible, at least until midterms can roll around.
    • benmmurphy9 hours ago
      The supreme court punted with Murthy vs Missouri (https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-411_3dq3.pdf) but it would be harder for them to use the standing excuse in this case. Also, Alito and Gorsuch were dissenting in this case so presumably you would hope that if a similar case appeared they would be consistent and side with the plaintiffs. I think for those in favour of a free speech ruling there is real hope for a positive outcome.
      • _DeadFred_4 hours ago
        Supreme Court case 22-842 last year, National Riffle Association of America, Petitioner v. Maria T. Vullo

        "Government officials cannot attempt to coerce private parties in order to punish or suppress views that the government disfavors."

        This gives the legal grounds that he KNEW what he was doing is a violation of law/the Constitution. It is not a grey area and the Trump admin would not be unaware of a case that the NRA WON last year.

        https://bsky.app/profile/barbarasobel.bsky.social/post/3lz4u...

    • cosmicgadget9 hours ago
      Emails from ABC, Nexstar, and the FCC may shed some light on things. See also: Dominion and Fox.
      • tptacek8 hours ago
        Right. My guess, though, is that those emails don't exist --- not because the intent wasn't there on the administration's part (without getting too deep into my politics: "lol") but because the FCC wouldn't need to have.

        There's also just a large affiliate station ownership that is conservative, and a large number of affiliates in markets that are themselves very conservative, and Kimmel did say something really dumb that probably did piss a lot of people off in a diffuse, organic way.

        Again: I hope he sues, I hope he gets to the inside of a courtroom, and obviously I hope he wins. But speaking descriptively, rather than just what I want to see happening: he has bigger problems than standing ahead of him.

    • defrost8 hours ago
      FWiW Carr won't even (yet, at least) be bought to testify before the Oversight Committee despite his comments that were clearly in breach (regardless of whether they had influence in the decision to suspend).

      See: Republicans Kill Attempt to Subpoena FCC Chair After Jimmy Kimmel Suspension https://talkingpointsmemo.com/where-things-stand/republicans...

      and other sources.

    • mieses6 hours ago
      Berenson v. Biden was dismissed.
    • _DeadFred_4 hours ago
      [flagged]
      • tptacek4 hours ago
        Yeah, you got me, I'm a secret Republican.
  • Skullfurious9 hours ago
    The States have become a third world shithole what other lows can you reasonably expect from them?
  • starchild30019 hours ago
    I've seen this happen before. President ordering people to be sued, and even jailed. There's a name for this kind of system and it isn't congressional democracy.
  • jjtheblunt10 hours ago
    Since that was written, Disney evidently published the back story that, days earlier, they were looking to fire Kimmel themselves (before any FCC threat), because he alienated the viewer base repeatedly, costing advertisers.

    Hard to know if that's true, of course.

  • throw0101a7 hours ago
    See perhaps:

    > Anna Gomez, the FCC’s lone Democratic commissioner, tells TNR that chairman Brendan Carr’s move violates both the First Amendment and the Communications Act. Democrats must extract consequences.

    * https://newrepublic.com/article/200649/trump-ouster-kimmel-a...

  • throw0101a7 hours ago
    Except that Roberts et al are basically on Trump's side. "The umpire who picked a side: John Roberts and the death of rule of law in America":

    * https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2025/aug/...

    "The Rule of Law Is Dead in the US":

    * https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/the-rule-of-law-i...

    • suzdude4 hours ago
      Yes, but Roberts really doesn't want to be worse than the Taney court. Throwing out freedom of speech with the first amendment would probably put him down there.
  • eth0up10 hours ago
    I could say a lot of mean things about Jimmy. But what good would it do? I can't stand him. But I will stand up for his right to say whatever he says. If this country, this side or that side, on a razor's edge or done gone cosmic can't see what looms in this direction, just take a chance and oppose it while you can. You don't want to live the alternative.

    Quite seriously

    • FredPret9 hours ago
      He has a right to say whatever he says, but surely his private employer have a right to fire him for it?

      He has a right to speak his mind, not to have a show.

      • JumpCrisscross9 hours ago
        > surely his private employer have a right to fire him for it?

        Short answer: depends on his contract.

        Longer answer: if ABC fired him because of illegal threats from Carr, one could construct the argument that ABC and Carr conspired illegally to subvert Kimmel’s First Amendment rights. (Whether this is legal nonsense is beyond me.)

        • FredPret9 hours ago
          That would be wrong, but I think the conservative backlash was such that he'd have been very much fired anyway, FCC or no. People were publishing lists of his advertisers on X to organize a boycott.
          • cosmicgadget9 hours ago
            Murder of someone with late stage cancer is still murder.
      • queenkjuul3 hours ago
        The FCC does not have the legal right to threaten him for what he said
      • bandyaboot9 hours ago
        Did you even read the piece?
    • pixxel3 hours ago
      [dead]
  • bmitch30208 hours ago
    Assuming Kimmel wins a lawsuit, if that lawsuit is against government officials, couldn't Trump immediately pardon those officials, overriding the courts?
    • hackingonempty7 hours ago
      No, lawsuits are civil and pardons are criminal.
  • macinjosh9 hours ago
    Kayfabe all around.

    Late night has been dying for a decade. Disney gets cover to end the show.

    Kimmel knows it’s over. He gets to go down looking like he’s fighting instead of unentertaining.

    Trump gets to claim he took down Kimmel, red meat for his base.

    News and Social Media gets something to boost their numbers.

    • TYPE_FASTER7 hours ago
      > He gets to go down looking like he’s fighting instead of unentertaining.

      Even better: he uses the opportunity to make it clear that any kind of comment that is out of line with the administration will not be tolerated.

      He didn't go down fighting. He went out demonstrating the consequence of not agreeing.

    • avidiax9 hours ago
      How does any other media personality know that it's "kayfabe"?

      The chilling effect is not "kayfabe".

    • cosmicgadget9 hours ago
      On the other hand, this fits a very consistent pattern with the administration and businesses or personalities that it deems critical.

      Plus of you're going out in a blaze, it's something more substantive than what he said.

    • thisisit6 hours ago
      It’s amazing to me that every time something like this happens some people paint it as some grand conspiracy and 4D chess move involving a large set of people. It’s like 4chan leaking all over the Internet.
  • mrangle10 hours ago
    [flagged]
    • lawlessone9 hours ago
      What's antifa? have they arrested the antifa leader yet?

      Did this antifa compile lists of "enemy" professors in colleges and media for their supporters to attack?.. No, that was Charlie that did that.

      >As is comparing it to a recently assassinated political leader.

      Charlie wasn't a political leader he was podcaster making money off advertising. I realize the line is a little blurred for you but the difference is a politician is someone that runs in elections.

      • carlosjobim9 hours ago
        Guerrilla warfare doesn't need hierarchical structures and one specific leader. Nor flags, headquarters, protocols or a lot of other things commonly associated with conflict. A guerrilla can still be a terrorist organization.
        • mcphage7 hours ago
          What do they have, exactly?
      • burnt-resistor9 hours ago
        It's the evidence-free, FUD MacGuffin to rationalize brutality, authoritarianism, and wiping one's behind with America's former professed values.
      • mrangle9 hours ago
        [flagged]
      • mrangle9 hours ago
        [flagged]
        • JumpCrisscross9 hours ago
          > Terrorists

          Terrorists do terrorism. What terrorism has Antifa done? (Answer: little to none [1].)

          I’m not a fan of them. But they’re about as obnoxious as several far-right groups that have been legally sanctioned by both parties.

          [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/us-rightwing-e...

          • mrangle9 hours ago
            [flagged]
            • JumpCrisscross9 hours ago
              > Who are you trying to debate, exactly?

              I guess my case is made by the hysterical nature of this comment. The people arguing Antifa are terrorists aren’t working with facts, but hyperactive emotions.

              • mrangle6 hours ago
                Sure thing. Happy to leave those posts to be compared, to make your case. Good gamble.

                However consider that you may have the emotional "difficulty" if, in your view, the observer who looks at the frequent terroristic violence of the Antifa domestic violent extremists (DVEs) is the location of the emotional problem.

                Do you remember when Antifa kicked-in a full-wall of entrance-door windows at UC Davis, where Charlie Kirk was speaking?

                That frightening event is on-video from the perspective of the attendees and security guards who were being terrorized on the other side of the doors.

                This being one of countless on-video Antifa terrorist actions. Do you wish to litigate more of the on-video Antifa terrorist acts? Many are much worse.

                High level political leader Charlie Kirk is now dead due to an assassin's bullet. An assassin who carved antifascist phrases onto multiple bullets.

                What was that, again, in regard to hyperactive emotions and working with facts?

                Objectively, Antifa are terrorists. Antifa is being designated a terrorist organization for that reason.

                Defend them all that you like, but keep that reality in-mind.

                What's your guess on the percentage of people commenting here who felt elation at Kirk's assassination? That disgusting percentage would be a true tell.

                No need to answer, as everyone knows what it is and I don't need to read a lie that literally no one believes.

                Antifa is being designated a terrorist org for good reason.

                Moreover, the American left has a structural DVE problem. In terms of both actors and, crucially, in terms of supporters of their actions.

                This widespread DVE support problem in the DNC voter population, highlighted after a high level political assassination, is why Kimmel is now off of the air.

                If Kimmel fights this, he'll essentially be fighting an anti-radicalization effort initiated by the US government to confront a true political stability crisis after an assassination. Which is a US National Security issue.

                If your high profile speech serves to maintain or further the radicalization of the DVE's after a catastrophic DVE event, then expect legal pushback. Not understanding where you are in the timeline will be continuously frustrating.

                But keep talking, if you still think that you aren't entirely oblivious to how the most powerful governments in the World see Antifa in this moment in history.

                Do you think that you can convince them, let alone the populace of the United States of your views? The wheels have long-been turning.

                Antifa's self-proclaimed popularity is a fiction. Anyone who has differing views from them feels intimidated by them, hates them, and is terrorized by them. Which is the definition of effective terrorism.

                Nothing like Antifa can be allowed to continue to exist in civilization. Common citizens cannot be afraid of being accosted by political actors when attending events of any kind. They cannot be afraid of walking or driving through an Antifa mob, when not going to events. Which they are, for very good reason rooted in Antifa terroristic behaviors. There was always a clock on Antifa.

                Like all significant criminal enterprises, Antifa can only continue to exist within civilization because it is protected by at least portions of the government and institutions. Which is what everyone witnessed in 2020, at minimum. Otherwise, police and agencies easily and eagerly would have destroyed any will to organize as violent Black Bloc. Believing anything else is self-delusion. Antifa's self-concept has always been a farce.

                But that support is 100% over once designated as a terrorist org.

                Antifa had high-level institutional protection. Now it can not.

                I recommend de-radicalization.

                • orwin19 minutes ago
                  Helldivers is antifa now, we should arrest their Devs I guess :/

                  Antifascists is an adolescent and violent ideology, to match their declared opponents. But if you push too much against it, you might create an united front that is ideologically way more dangerous (especially with how low the confidence in capitalism is) and the US will have to go full McCarthyism again.

        • lawlessone9 hours ago
          where's their hq? who's their leader?
          • JumpCrisscross9 hours ago
            To be fair, neither of these are gating requirements for a terrorist group.
          • mrangle9 hours ago
            [flagged]
            • 9 hours ago
              undefined
            • jjulius9 hours ago
              [flagged]
  • RickJWagner9 hours ago
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