36 pointsby randfish5 months ago9 comments
  • gnabgib5 months ago
    Dupe (753 points, yesterday, 632 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45314592
  • gurgeous5 months ago
    I have used this knife, I am an angel investor in Scott's company. The thing is legit amazing. He labored for years to bring this to market and it shows.
  • xyzzy1235 months ago
    Hm usually ultrasonic cutting tools have small, disposable blades, which are tuned so that they vibrate right. Also they can produce an intense burning sensation in either the hand you're using (if you hold wrong / too tight) or in your off-hand (if you hit something hard, like a bone, which can pick up the vibrations).

    I'm sure there's an ultrasonic transducer in there but I wonder how a 40w transducer (this is typical power for hand-held) can move such a giant blade around at 40khz. It does not seem physically plausible to me.

    • sheimend5 months ago
      Hey there, Scott here. I'm driving the knife at actually only 10W. When in resonance, this produces a stroke amplitude of 10-20 microns (depending on the spot on the blade) which is large enough to have a measurable impact on the ease of cutting. 50% reduction in peak force for tomatoes (as measured quantitatively with a robot arm), and I've seen even higher in other foods.

      At this power level, there's no heating of the blade like the small blade tools you're describing. And firmware in the handle adjusts the operating frequency continuously to stay in resonance.

      This all works because the ultrasonics aren't moving the blade like a reciprocating saw -- that would indeed require huge power. They're sending longitudinal shockwaves through the blade itself that cause the metal to expand and contract. Check out minute 2:30 in the video here to see that motion in action: https://youtu.be/cXjbSVt9XNM

      • xyzzy1235 months ago
        That's cool, thanks! So it's not like traditional ultrasonic cutting where you're trying to couple energy into the material, but vibrating the knife sounds like it's doing genuinely interesting things.

        Have you been able to find out how this is producing the cutting action? Like, is it the blade motion back & forth that's doing it or some other effect? (cutting and ultrasonics can both be surprising independently, so together...) Does the knife when powered have "sweet spots" that it helps to get a feel for? I imagine you learned a lot of interesting things during development of this.

        • sheimend5 months ago
          I'm still trying to get better and better data - it's tricky given the size and speed of the movement. But my working model is something like this. Cutting is made of of two phases: cut initiation, and cleaving.

          Cut initiation is all about the cutting edge. In an ultrasonic blade, that edge oscillates and the tiny imperfections on the blade edge act like a saw to break the linking fibers in food. It's just like using a human-scale slicing motion, but at 40kHz, and with a microscopic stroke length.

          Cleaving is mostly about friction. Cutting a block of cheddar is pretty much all cleaving, and a very sharp cutting edge doesn't provide much advantage. My blade vibrates along the blade face, so foods experience the coefficient of kinetic friction, not static friction. This reduces cutting forces, and does so in a way that's totally independent of the sharpness of the edge.

          We experience different foods as more cut-initiation-centric or more friction-centric. Tomatoes are all about piercing the skin. Hard squash is a cleaving game. Bread is layers upon layers of initiating cuts in the bubbles of the crumb.

          If you're interested, I published my testing on regular knives in the Quantified Knife Project by strapping 21 chef's knives to a robot arm and collecting data on cutting forces. The data are open-source on github, too. https://youtu.be/GUQy0Sdp8Hc

          • xyzzy1235 months ago
            Thanks again Scott, BESS testing with a robot arm is such a great idea.
      • tptacek5 months ago
        Hey! Thanks for commenting here.

        Can you make a video of this doing any kind of bulk prep work, like dicing an onion or something? (Is there any reason this knife wouldn't be appropriate for that?)

  • jerlam5 months ago
    I wonder how well it works after the typical home user has blunted the edge, hacking at bones on tile or glass cutting boards.
    • sheimend5 months ago
      If any home users cut on glass, they'll be rewarded with an unpleasant screeching sound. I can't say that was by design, but it's not undeserved ;-)

      The ultrasonic motion acts as an amplifier for physical sharpness. So, it's sharpest when it's got a geometrically great edge, but even as that edge dulls, it behaves sharper when on vs. off. This is reflected in BESS testing, and also in robotic cutting.

      Moreover, a huge amount of the force required for cutting normal foods is actually a function of friction, not just bevel sharpness. So the reduced friction on the blade faces from ultrasonic motion remains just as effective even if the cutting edge is dull. In fact, commercial ultrasonic cutting machines don't use sharp blades at all!

  • natas5 months ago
    It's a good idea, but it's probably cheaper and, from an ecological standpoint better (than e-waste) to sharpen knives; a top-quality professional electric knife sharpener will set you back $170 and last you a lifetime; which is a third of the cost of the Ultrasonic's knife. Cool idea though.
    • ahofmann5 months ago
      I don't get it. How is buying a "top-quality professional electric knife sharpener" more ecological than buying a knife with a bit of electronics in the handle? Both are used by one person in your proposal and I would think, that it needs more energy to build the sharpener.
    • AgentElement5 months ago
      One does not even need a top-quality professional electric knife sharpener to produce an edge for kitchen work. An inexpensive 1500 grit whetstone suffices.
      • natas5 months ago
        yes, you are right. Basically $15 is all you need, and certainly better for the environment.
    • samuli5 months ago
      ..and if you don't like sharpening knives, you can buy a serrated vegetable knife for cutting fruit like tomatoes.
    • 5 months ago
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  • balibones5 months ago
    This is a really cool idea. I'm not sure I cook enough to need/afford it, but I SO want to try it out!
  • tandr5 months ago
    How crazy will it drive my dog?
    • natas5 months ago
      good point, it's within their audible frequency which is between 40Hz to 60kHz (65kHz in some dogs); the knife is 40kHz, so it will drive them completely crazy.
  • fuzzythinker5 months ago
    @Scott How much faster will the cutting board (wood & plastic) degrade? Do you recommend one over the other for this knife? Will you be making one best suited for this knife?
  • reassess_blind5 months ago
    This means all fries will technically be waffle cut if you zoom in far enough?