26 pointsby jerlam15 hours ago9 comments
  • philipallstar14 hours ago
    > The disadvantages are equally apparent. It alters the core driving logic learned from the beginning – "press the accelerator to accelerate and press the brake to decelerate." When applied to the crucial acceleration and deceleration control of a vehicle, the associated safety risks are considerable.

    Well, in most vehicles if you take your foot off the accelerator you start to decelerate. It would be good if strong deceleration lit the brake lights, I agree, but that's a separate issue.

    • Sohcahtoa8214 hours ago
      That amount of deceleration can vary a lot from car-to-car.

      I had a rental recently that would just keep going and going when I released the accelerator. I could be going 65 mph, release, and 30 seconds later, still going ~60 mph. As someone that used to drive manuals and now drives and EV, I hated it. My typical driving style is built around the idea that the brake pedal is an evil device that converts cash into brake dust and waste heat, so I use it as little as possible and release the accelerator earlier when I'm going to need to stop. That doesn't work on a car that barely slows down at all when you release the pedal.

      I don't know if this was considered a feature for this car, or if maybe the throttle cable was too tight or stuck or something, but I hated how much more I had to use the brake pedal.

      • HankStallone14 hours ago
        A high-school friend of mine had a VW Bug, and he claimed it was easier to change the clutch than the brakes, so he downshifted to decelerate as much as possible. Maybe Bugs were special that way; on every manual shift vehicle I've owned, brakes were much easier.
        • mikestew12 hours ago
          When I was a pro mechanic, I watched someone drop the engine on a Bug in like 15 minutes. For that car, clutches are easy.

          Now do a front-wheel-drive of any era. Hey, guess what you get to do first? Take the wheels off, thereby exposing the brakes.

        • trenchpilgrim13 hours ago
          The Bug's motor was in the back of the car, in a very accessible spot.
        • smileysteve11 hours ago
          My original clutch is at 197k miles, and I downshift to decelerate until i use the brakes the last 10-20'.

          The clutch is much more difficult to replace on my car; (i've done the brake discs 2x -- track days),

          If you're relatively smooth on your downshifts, each downshift should be much shorter than your average braking duration.

          More generally speaking, if you're in a gear that slows you down, or downshift to it, you're more likely to avoid a full stop and start, which puts much more wear on the clutch than a series of downshifts.

          ... I also downshift when I drive automatics ... when I can... there are large downhills near my neighborhood (in a school zone) coming from a stop, if I switch to manual mode or short/sport mode, I can be in 3rd, at a controlled speed, and barely touch the brakes (versus others ride their brakes all down the hill)

      • bee_rider13 hours ago
        It is shocking how much driving you can do without using the brakes. And, often I wonder about these quirky mini-games people play while driving (optimizing metrics other than safety seems bad), but if you really try to minimize brake usage you are forced to maintain a really generous following distance.
        • Terr_13 hours ago
          Yeah, IMO it's excellent "mini-game" more drivers should be playing.

          1. It encourages safety through adequate following-distance.

          2. Drivers doing it are more aware of upcoming hazards, rather than less.

          3. Overall improvement in traffic, reducing hard-stops, reducing hard-acceleration, and encouraging zipper-merging.

          4. It displaces wayyyy-worse things bored drivers might end up doing.

        • dzhiurgis11 hours ago
          I feel tesla adjusts regen so you always stop exactly at the line on intersection. It’s a little bizarre. You don’t feel it but I noticed it way too many times.
          • Sohcahtoa8210 hours ago
            I don't get that from my Tesla at all. I'm always having to keep giving it a little throttle to make it to the line.
            • dzhiurgis5 hours ago
              Hmmm, that’s opposite of what I’m trying to say. My point is it never overruns the line, but it’s all just a speculation.

              I’d love to rigirously test this.

      • Terr_13 hours ago
        > My typical driving style is built around the idea that the brake pedal is an evil device that converts cash into brake dust and waste heat, so I use it as little as possible and release the accelerator earlier when I'm going to need to stop.

        Agreed and well-put. An attentive driver should always be noticing the frequent situations where you'll need to stop/slow ahead, and gradual slowing is far safer for everyone involved than delaying before slamming on the brakes.

        Could some differences in opinion might come from the places people drive? Where I live, it's almost never safe/desirable to dial in a constant speed for an extended period. There's always traffic or a bend or something. The rare exceptions are best-solved by using the explicit cruise-control feature.

        In contrast, perhaps another person is out on straight empty rural highways a lot, and they like the "it just keeps going on its own" behavior because it's basically cruise-control-lite.

      • slaw13 hours ago
        I hate when people write 'in a country I visited' or 'I had a rental EV' or 'I paid good price' or some other useless comment without saying exactly what was the car brand.
        • Sohcahtoa8212 hours ago
          My word choice was deliberate because I actually can't remember the car I had and couldn't be fucked to go look it up.
    • tomatotomato3714 hours ago
      Most ICE vehicles with automatic transmissions (aka 90% of them) either explicitly open the clutch or do torque converter things when off throttle, the result being that the vehicle starts freewheeling. Air resistance and friction and what not means the vehicle will eventually stop, but in a modern car at highway speeds that stopping distance can still be multiple miles; and that's before you bring hills into the equation.

      My point being for most people expected behavior is for a car to only slow down during active braking and maintain momentum otherwise, and trying to change that otherwise would bring more danger than it's worth.

    • 14 hours ago
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    • Glant14 hours ago
      I believe in the past year or two someone passed a law with a specific deceleration amount. If you were decelerating at or beyond that amount, brake lights are required to come on. Maybe the EU? Can't quite remember. Would definitely be good to have that here in the US
  • badc0ffee14 hours ago
    "One-pedal driving" means the vehicle slows to a complete stop when you release the accelerator pedal.

    (I had never heard of this before just now.)

    • cderg14 hours ago
      It's quite common in electric cars these days. Makes driving much more pleasant, and once you get used to it there's minimal need to swap back to the brake pedal.
    • HankStallone14 hours ago
      Neither had I. I've heard of clutch braking, where you downshift to slow the vehicle, though that won't bring it to a stop. Truckers use that sometimes because it saves wear on the brakes, and it's banned some places. I suppose regenerative braking could have a similar effect, but why not have that turn on the brake lights the same way pressing down on a brake pedal does?
      • NobodyNada13 hours ago
        > it's banned some places

        "Engine braking" bans usually target jake braking [0] (opening the exhaust valve at the end of the compression stroke), which greatly increases the effect of engine braking at the cost of producing a very loud noise [1] (which is why it's often banned in residential areas). As far as I'm aware, such bans do not limit the use of "normal" downshifting to decelerate.

        [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_release_engine_bra...

        [1]: https://youtu.be/z3bLqjPBlx8

      • barbazoo11 hours ago
        > why not have that turn on the brake lights the same way pressing down on a brake pedal does?

        It does at least in the cars I've driven.

    • bluefirebrand12 hours ago
      Sounds incredibly dangerous to me

      What do you do if you have to stop asap rather than coasting? Emergency brake?

      • jcotton4212 hours ago
        There's still a separate brake pedal.
        • bluefirebrand12 hours ago
          Okay, so it's a misnomer
          • barbazoo11 hours ago
            For me, the majority of one pedal driving is exactly this. No brake pedal needed. Requires looking and thinking ahead when driving. Obviously if something unexpected happens, the brake pedal it is.
            • bluefirebrand10 hours ago
              This is how I already drive my gas powered vehicle so I don't really get the difference

              But then again, I'm always shocked when I've driven in the USA, Americans ride the brake pedal it's crazy

              • barbazoo9 hours ago
                I'm talking no brake pedal is needed even for stopping at roundabouts, intersections, etc. The regen braking will take you to a complete stop. Much less brake force than the conventional brake so it's crucial to have enough space in front of you.
                • bluefirebrand2 hours ago
                  I guess it's a different way of controlling the vehicle but I don't think I would enjoy or feel comfortable in a car that starts decelerating the moment the accelerator is released

                  I mean coasting is one thing and of course you will lose speed doing that, but this sounds more aggressive than just naturally losing speed from coasting

      • dzhiurgis7 hours ago
        Make a foot shape with your hand and tap on the touchscreen. Only takes few days to get used to.
  • altairprime14 hours ago
    To clarify the submission headline, the policy change limits, but does not prohibit, electric car regenerative braking when neither gas nor brake pedals are depressed:

    > The braking deceleration in the default state should not exceed 3m/s²

  • cosmic_cheese13 hours ago
    I know that one-pedal has some ardent fans, but I’ve not been able to come around to it. The control it gives feels almost too direct which makes me feel like I need to be neurotic with my pedal control in order to be able to smoothly drive and not have “quivery” speed fluctuations when not leaning on cruise control. The more eased speed falloff that comes with a more traditional setup feels better.
    • bob102913 hours ago
      Sharing the road with drivers on an entirely different control scheme is something I am not a fan of. Going from 2 axes of control to 1 axis of control is not a change to be trivialized. Some in the commercial trucking industry would argue that allowing 2 pedal driving was a catastrophe with regard to filtering out low skilled and unsafe drivers.

      Cruise control whenever feasible and safe is probably the most polite solution to the consequences of one pedal driving. The freeway is where this kind of driving causes the most frustration for me. I don't think it should be banned but I think drivers should really give a shit about how they impact others around them. We can make it entirely about safety if that helps. At some level being polite aligns with basic physics.

      • barbazoo11 hours ago
        You really only have 1 axis of control with a brake pedal because you have to take your foot of the gas first. With one pedal driving at least you don't have to take off your foot.

        One pedal driving for me only makes sense if you keep a proper distance to the people around you, such that the limited braking force is sufficient to flow with the traffic, so that wouldn't apply to many drivers out there. Perhaps that's where the confusion comes from.

    • amluto13 hours ago
      I’ve contemplated a modified one-pedal scheme. The accelerator pedal could a haptic mechanism such that a smallish force could hold it at the neutral point and a significantly larger force would be needed to depress it into acceleration territory. This would allow light foot pressure to maintain speed without constantly oscillating a bit.

      “Neutral” could be defined as zero motor power, constant speed, or something else — there’s plenty of room for experimentation.

  • bwanab13 hours ago
    Total overreach. I go from one pedal driving on my EV to my manual 5 speed 2004 Saab on a regular basis. I've been doing this for 6.5 years. I'm really glad nobody has been telling me that I can't do it.
    • amanaplanacanal11 hours ago
      It sounds like it's driven by safety concerns:

      > In 2024, a new energy vehicle brand conducted a user survey, revealing that 32% of car owners had mistakenly used the accelerator pedal as the brake pedal in emergencies, with 15% resulting in accidents.

      > A simulation test by Tsinghua University's Automotive Safety Laboratory also showed that drivers accustomed to the one-pedal mode had an average reaction time 0.3 seconds longer when pressing the brake pedal in an emergency, equivalent to an additional braking distance of 8.3 meters at 100 km/h.

      • dzhiurgis10 hours ago
        Correlates with my experience. Def gives me a little pause once you are used to 1 pedal driving.
    • dzhiurgis11 hours ago
      Going from EV to automatic is nothing special, but to manual I found I subconsciously used engine breaking like EV, occasionally stalling it!
  • tt_dev14 hours ago
    Seems reasonable, standardize on operability. It will be quite a shift in driving behavior for the vehicle the come to a complete halt during deceleration
  • underdeserver12 hours ago
    This is one of those things that sounds scary until you try it.

    Everyone I know who uses one pedal driving thinks it's intuitive enough.

    I alternate between my EV with one pedal driving and my wife's automatic Mazda without issue.

    • SupremumLimit10 hours ago
      It isn’t just intuitive enough, it’s more intuitive and precise than the ICE setup. It’s safer too, as the car starts braking before I even reach the brake pedal in an emergency braking situation.

      I dislike going back to the ICE setup.

    • bluefirebrand12 hours ago
      It doesn't sound scary to me, it sounds stupid and uncomfortable though

      You can't just take your foot off the accelerator and coast, even downhill, is that right?

      No thanks

      • geek_at12 hours ago
        That's what ACC is for
      • dzhiurgis10 hours ago
        It’s one of the best feature of ev, makes driving far easier and simpler. Wanna coast downhill? Press acc slightly.
  • spicybbq12 hours ago
    I find it odd that Tesla removed creep mode as an option. For newer vehicles, there is only one-pedal mode. I've heard it increases the rated mileage, but not sure if that's the reason.
  • more_corn12 hours ago
    Specifically: “releasing the accelerator pedal should not decelerate the vehicle to a complete stop.”

    Every electric car I’ve driven needs brake pedal engaged to bring it to a complete stop. Regenerative braking seems to disengage at ~5mph.

    I honestly see no safety reason for this, but they’re not banning one pedal control they’re specifically saying it can’t bring the vehicle to a complete stop.

    I would actually think there’s a safety argument for the reverse. In absence of an active driver shouldn’t the vehicle slow and eventually stop?