36 pointsby belter15 hours ago4 comments
  • ChrisArchitect13 hours ago
    Related:

    Ireland will not participate in Eurovision if Israel takes part

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45210867

  • buyucu13 hours ago
    I applaud the Dutch for standing up for human decency.
  • tiahura12 hours ago
    [flagged]
  • Thiez14 hours ago
    About time the Netherlands do something. They are Israels biggest European trade partner and could probably have used sanctions to force Israel to halt its genocide at any point. But the Netherlands do not have a great track record making the moral choice when there is money to be made, especially when it involves colonialism and the subjugation and genocide of indigenous people.
    • rizpanjwani14 hours ago
      Read some history. It’s like saying the First Nation are committing genocide against the indigenous white people of North America.
      • buyucu13 hours ago
        Israel was formed by invading Palestine and killing the locals. Israel is modern day Hernan Cortes.
        • rizpanjwani13 hours ago
          OK then why does Israel have 2 million Arab Muslims?

          Palestine was the name of the entire region, not a country. It comprised of Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, etc. You want to dismantle Israel? Then let’s dismantle all these other states that were formed at the same time from the ruins of the Ottoman Empire.

          • buyucu12 hours ago
            Ask them how they are treated. Israel treats them in a horrible way. If fascists like ben gvir have their way, then they will lose what little rights they have.

            Israel murders as many Palestinians as it can get away with.

            • rizpanjwani12 hours ago
              Yeah Israel must be really bad at it then given that the Arab population in that region and inside Israel has gone up 10 fold in last 70 years.
      • space_fountain14 hours ago
        The issue is it’s more like if Americans in mass moved back to Ireland and started genociding the native Irish. Plenty of the Arab population of the region also trace their ancestors back to the biblical period and even if it wasn’t true history in a region doesn’t prevent you from committing atrocities
        • rizpanjwani13 hours ago
          Yet another historical revisionism. Turkey took in a million Syrian refugees but nobody questioned them. Jews in Israel taking in Jewish refugees is not allowed…

          As for atrocities… who aims for maximum civilian casualties vs who aims to minimize them? Who has 20+ countries yet not a single Jew vs who has 2 million Muslims with equal rights?

          • space_fountain12 hours ago
            I don't know if it's productive to talk on here, but I'm not the person you seem to think I am. I think Israel has a right to defend itself and I think it has a right to take in refuges if it wants to, but it doesn't have anything to do with your claim that Jewish israelis have some sort of claim to the land owing to ancestral history that isn't shared by the people they literally pushed out. You can read this wiki article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Palestinians), but my read is that the jews and palestinians both descended from a similar group of people. Palestinians are mostly just historic jews that converted

            There are things that have moved me to be more sympathetic to the Palestinian cause over the past few years and I think if you haven't listened to Ezra Klein talk about this you should. I think he holds the right balance of pointing out the horror of what Israel has done while holding the context of the horrors Palestine seems intent on doing if given power

            • rizpanjwani12 hours ago
              Agree with you on the first point except the conversion was not voluntary if you know Islam’s history in the region. Not only did it wipe out religions but also language and culture. Why can’t Israel have one tiny country for itself in the fraction of the region where the Jewish people have existed for 4000+ years? That’s what this whole thing is about. It’s religious warfare against the Jews disguised as fight for national independence or whatever they want to call it.
              • space_fountain11 hours ago
                I'm not sure that any ethnic group has a right to a country, but I think it's pointless to talk about if Jews should have one though because they went and did it. That's done. I agree with you in so much as there's no going back now, but talking about what happened thousands of years ago is a poor way to decide what should happen now, especially when it's done simplistically.

                The Jews who moved back to Israel did not have a greater claim to the region through ancestry than the people they pushed out and honestly I don't think it really would have mattered if they did.

                Yes it is a bit of a religious war at times, but also imagine you were born in Palestine in the period of the british mandate. Your family likely lived in the region for thousands of years practicing more or less the same faith you did. You would have been forced out of your home in 1948. Your house would literally be given away as abandoned. If you happened to settle in East Jerusalem you might have been given a home in compensation. That home was originally some poor jewish families, but still somewhere to live, but then when Israel annexed the East Jerusalem they passed laws giving the property back to the original owners. Fine, but did you get your home back? No the law was structured explicitly so as not to apply to you. Maybe you were unlucky though and you resettled further into the interior of the west bank. Well then you might see extremist come into your community in the middle of the night and bulldoze your home. I'm not sure you need religion to end up radicalized in this situation. It isn't fair what Israel did to palestinians in the 40s and it isn't fair what they're doing now in the west bank and gaza. It also isn't fair what Arab countries have done to the jews, but the people who live in the west bank have now power over that

                • rizpanjwani10 hours ago
                  The whole identity of Arabs as Palestinians is a very recent fabrication a la Arafat the mass murderer. Jews were the Palestinians for 2000 years. Vast number of Arabs migrated to the British mandated Palestine from surrounding regions due to economical reasons. It is purely due to religious reasons that Arabs have refused time and again to have their own state even after Israel left gaza by electing hamas. Their intention is and always has been to wipe out the Jews or at the very least keep them under their thumb as second class citizens like in the good old days.
                  • space_fountain3 hours ago
                    I quoted a source, can you? I did a tiny bit of research. What I can find of early censuses seems to imply that throughout the period of the British mandate their was some immigration of both Jewish and Muslim people, but the fraction of Jewish people in the region grew rapidly mostly though immigration. It seems like it would be convenient if this was true, but it doesn’t seem to be.

                    As to your second point, idk, it seems to me like probably the Arab side was more at fault several decades ago, but it is the documented goal of the current rulers of Israel to make sure that moderate forces in Palestine don’t come to power. They’ve done everything they can to delegitimize the Palestinian authority. Again if you were a Palestinian living in the West Bank what would you think. What has the peaceful strategy gotten you?

            • tguvot10 hours ago
              one thing that wikipedia article dedicates 1 sentence and only in order to dismiss, it's that there was significant arab immigration into area when it got economic boost after the arrival of the jews.

              there are estimates of 100k - 300k migrants in 20s and 30s as border with jordan and egypt was unsupervised.

              somewhat indirect confirmation of this, will be for example hamas minister of interior and security claiming that most of them have either egyptian or saudi origins: https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-minister-interior-and-nationa...

              a good chunk of actual palestinians are probably descendants of jews that got "culturally colonized" . but it's not known how much of them.

              i looked in a past through a bunch of genetic studies that were made that establish that palestinians are genetically native/related to jews. what i didn't find is how they collected data and if they discarded data that was "inconvenient" for purpose of analysis

      • StopDisinfo91013 hours ago
        You do realise that when people settled somewhere has actually nothing to do with the act of committing a genocide. Genocide is characterised by the intention to destroy a national group. It doesn’t matter if one group thinks that’s justified.

        “We were here before and they are corrupting our land” is pretty much as common as it goes when it comes to reasons brandished to try to justify a genocide. The Nazi would be proud.

        Anyway, given this first disgusting comment and your second post actively misrepresenting how Jewish people are treated in Arab countries and what’s currently happening in Gaza, I have little doubt that I’m talking with the void.

        • rizpanjwani12 hours ago
          [flagged]
          • StopDisinfo91011 hours ago
            More than 850000 Jews who used to live in Arab countries have emigrated to Israel since 1948 lured to Israel by The One Million plan.

            Arab countries did not ethnically cleanse Jews. That’s a complete fabrication.

            You are defending genocide. I feel dirty talking to you. I’m going to stop for my sanity. I pity you to be frank.

            • dlubarov11 hours ago
              > Arab countries did not ethnically cleanse Jews. That’s a complete fabrication.

              This is just plainly wrong. Even if we ignore the various pogroms, asset seizures and other persecution (where one could perhaps argue that Jews weren't strictly required to leave), there were some pretty explicit expulsions of Jews as well, such as in Egypt in 1956.

      • isr13 hours ago
        One (minor) positive now is that I don't feel the need to point out the 101 reasons why what you posted is an absolute lie.

        99% of the planet has already learned enough of the truth (historical & current) to recognise your lie, as a lie.

        • rizpanjwani13 hours ago
          Effective propaganda by 25% of the planet’s population can’t change reality.
          • isr12 hours ago
            Umm, seriously? Is that it? There's nothing even vaguely plausible in your sentence. Is that all that the "hasbara" playbook has left?

            I think at this stage an LLM might do a better hasbara job than humanoids...

            • rizpanjwani12 hours ago
              You haven’t disputed any of my points. Just ad hominem attacks
        • yousaidthat11112 hours ago
          Jeez, why stop at 101? You really meant to say 111 and counting, right?
      • dttze13 hours ago
        So you support the mass murder of whites by indigenous peoples? Hell yeah brotha, land back.
      • cthaeh14 hours ago
        [dead]
    • 852124694214 hours ago
      [flagged]