150 pointsby archagon3 days ago21 comments
  • godelski3 days ago
    I do like the idea of mascots, but truthfully I think they are better done as non-human mascots and need to be simple. I think Japan got this right with Yura-chara[0]. There seems to be a strong preference for non-human characters and when there are human ones, they're still overly simplistic.

    Seems like same rule about flags[1]: a child should be able to draw it from memory.

    Only Barty seems to fit these conditions.

    [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuru-chara

    [1] https://nava.org/good-flag-bad-flag

    • bobthepanda3 days ago
      Not for a transit system per se, but the ORCA farecard in Seattle has a mascot named Boop, who is an orca: https://info.myorca.com/news/meet-boop/
      • Reason0772 days ago
        There's quite a precedent of sea-related names for transit fare cards. Hong Kong's Octopus, London's Oyster, San Francisco's Clipper... any others I've missed?
      • godelski2 days ago
        I would feel offended if they chose anything else lol. But the orca mascot is cute. Well done Seattle
    • j4coh2 days ago
      I always thought this “a child should be able to draw it” thing was an even better example of a vaguely contrarian factoid that sort of makes you sound smart if you don’t think about it too much, so it becomes endlessly repeated. Which is an interesting phenomenon in its own way.
      • deeThrow942 days ago
        It's not a fact(oid) at all as it's not a statement about reality. it's a principle. You don't have to agree with it, but others might disagree about the quality of the flag you might produce avoiding it.
        • j4coh2 days ago
          Sure but I’m more talking about the way people use it than what it is in reality. Obviously it’s not a real truism, but if you heard it once then it’s something vaguely smart sounding you can say whenever a topic about flags comes up, even when it’s essentially a non-sequitur as in this case. People find it nearly irresistible to mention, which is fascinating.
          • deeThrow94a day ago
            I realize people technically say things to look smart, but i think you might have a specific beef with this topic. How often does the subject of evaluating flag quality come up in your social circles?
            • j4coha day ago
              I was just as surprised as you are, though mainly it happens on Reddit rather than with anyone I would know personally. By the fifth, sixth time of the exact same reply, you really wonder what’s going on there and look into it. I’m not involved in flag related conversation circles otherwise.
          • godelski2 days ago
            Real world constraints mean any well constructed principle must at times be violated. That's not a flaw in the principle. A good principle for principles ("rules" in varying uses of the word) is that they need to be simple. Rules/principles of any kind are guides not immutable policies. It would be insane to create immutable policies as the world is constantly changing.

            If a rule is overly complex, no one can remember it and there can be no expectation for people to follow.

            tldr: All rules are guides. Be they rules rules or "rules" rules

            • j4coha day ago
              Yes makes sense, I’m more talking about the way people use it in casual conversations than what it is in reality. Obviously it’s not a real “rule” with anyone enforcing it, flags children can draw aren’t actually generally inherently better in any non-subjective sense, and reality is a complex place.
      • numpad02 days ago
        Interesting point. Can anyone here draw a geometrically, not semantically, accurate Apple logo, without references? I can't, a reasonably convincing humanoid heads are much easier than that.
    • throwaway3141553 days ago
      > Seems like same rule about flags[1]: a child should be able to draw it from memory.

      Im a grown ass man and can't draw the US flag properly from memory, much less the many far more complicated flags out there.

      I don't think that definition is particularly useful.

      • jonchurch_3 days ago
        It is a useful concept, and letting the whispers of the vexillophiles[0] into your head will lead you to see that most flags are well, pretty bad.

        CGP Grey has a lot of opinions[1] about this.

        [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vexillology

        [1] https://youtu.be/l4w6808wJcU

      • godelski2 days ago
        It's a "you should" kind of rule not a "everyone follows this with no exceptions" kind of rule. Come to think of it, I'm not sure I can think of an example of the latter
        • thaumasiotes2 days ago
          > It's a "you should" kind of rule not a "everyone follows this with no exceptions" kind of rule.

          It's not a "you should" kind of rule either. It's something someone made up and wants to persuade other people of for no particular reason, similar to "don't split infinitives".

          There is no benefit to having people be able to draw the flag accurately. A flag has two purposes:

          1. Be easy to recognize.

          2. Be visually impressive.

          Two good flags are the flag of California and the flag of Saudi Arabia. You'd have a hard time drawing either one, but that's not a problem.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_California

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Saudi_Arabia

          (Note also that I've seen a Spaniard claim her flag was easy to draw. She meant that it's easy to draw if you don't bother to draw the coat of arms.)

          • godelski2 days ago

              > There is no benefit to having people be able to draw the flag accurately. A flag has two purposes:
            
            The purposes you mention are much more easily achieved by being simple to draw.

            Yes, it is something "someone is arguing" but it's congruent with general design principles you will see in most domains.

              > a Spaniard claim her flag was easy to draw. She meant that it's easy to draw if you don't bother to draw the coat of arms.
            
            She's not exactly wrong. Many countries use variants of flags for different uses. In the case of Spain[0] the civil flag does not have the coat of arms.

            For a similar case, see the flag of Germany[1], Austria[2], Peru[3], Finland[4], Italy[5], and need I go on?

            I don't think you should be ashamed for not knowing, but it's worth recognizing how easy it is to miscommunicate because different inherent assumptions are being made. In your case it is unsurprising that there is this disagreement because she sees the civil flag commonly and you don't, so it seems like a cop-out to you while it is pretty reasonable for her. There's surprisingly (annoyingly) a lot of depth to seemingly simple things.

            [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Spain

            [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Germany

            [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Austria

            [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Peru

            [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Finland

            [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Italy

            • thaumasiotesa day ago
              > The purposes you mention are much more easily achieved by being simple to draw.

              No, that is not true for either purpose. Being simple to draw is a negative in both cases:

              (1) Things that are simple to draw can be easy to recognize, but things that are complex are easier to recognize.

              (2) Things that are simple to draw are never visually impressive.

              And the flags that are easy to draw are so simple that it's interfering with the ability to recognize them. The first example there would be Ireland vs the Ivory Coast:

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Ireland

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Ivory_Coast

              Another common confusion is Russia vs France, though in that case someone who needs to be able to tell the difference won't have trouble:

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Russia

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_France

              > For a similar case, see the flag of Germany[1], Austria[2], Peru[3], Finland[4], Italy[5], and need I go on?

              Go on? Try beginning first. Every single one of those links presents the flag without the coat of arms as a default and the flag with the coat of arms as a special case.

      • opan2 days ago
        Look at the flags for Texas and Chile for a more reasonable version of the US flag. The new Minnesota flag is an example of a good flag by these rules as well.
    • yellowapple3 days ago
      Agreed. Nyango Star is another example of this sort of mascot done right. He's an apple, a cat, and a heavy metal drummer; what's not to love?
    • spondylosaurus3 days ago
      The first BART mascot has a little blue chibi goat next to the human girl, and I can't tell if the chibi is supposed to be an alternate form of the girl or a completely separate entity, but either way it seems like it could be a solid yura-chara.
    • Lammy3 days ago
      > I think Japan got this right

      I like DPS-kun from beatmaniaⅡᴅx copula: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcfmIKKMu7Y

      They made a plush of him that's very cute too

    • imtringued3 days ago
      They have non-human characters. The key mistake they made is that they put the human characters front and center. The human characters should appear in accompanying comics where they end up interacting with the animal mascots, not be the mascots themselves.
  • kappasan3 days ago
    We have something similar here in Kyoto! But we're Japan so there's an actual anime [1] and a character relationship chart [2], both straight from the city government.

    [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OInuZFHeQo

    [2] https://www.city.kyoto.lg.jp/kotsu/cmsfiles/contents/0000215...

  • cosmicgadget3 days ago
    > The reincarnated bunny spirit of a legacy car who has seen it all.

    Not how I picture a BART car that has "seen it all".

    • PaulRobinson3 days ago
      I'm pretty well travelled across Europe and North America, and a little bit of South America.

      I've never seen anything like the BART anywhere else - and I don't mean that in a positive way.

      It's late where I am, I'm about to go to bed, and now this image of a BART car that has "seen it all" is going to haunt me... I might eat a load of cheese to calm the dreams down...

    • cultofmetatron3 days ago
      no kidding.. I lived in SF during the peak of the influx of tech and was a daily BART rider. there's things I can't unsee.
      • Lammy3 days ago
        I'm glad I got to experience the carpeted cars with cloth seats even if they got gross some times.
        • cobbzilla2 days ago
          Cloth seats on BART must be among the worst design decisions ever made. Seating on public transit must be something that can be hosed down with bleach, and not a material that will forever hold whatever funk is deposited into it.
          • cobbzilla2 hours ago
            I find it implausible that anyone who actually rode these could remember them fondly.

            To the defenders: I ask you to please describe your memory of “the BART smell” from the cloth-seat era, if you have such firsthand experience.

            I do remember. Many years make a strong impression. And while that specific smell-memory is largely indescribable, it’s nonetheless and unfortunately quite unforgettably awful.

            My attempt: imagine a laundry hamper very full of very dirty clothes, including a few with fecal/other/mystery stains, slow-baked for weeks in a warm closet. Now open the closet door and take a deep nasal breath— that’s what stepping onto the train was like. I feel zero positive nostalgia.

          • flomo2 days ago
            I took BART a lot (uhhh) 30 years ago. The trains were very clean and highly policed. I wouldn't even bring a coffee on board, much less smoke crank or whatever. Different era.
            • SllX2 days ago
              Sounds like the dream. All I want is a more frequent police presence in and around the station infrastructure and on the trains for both BART and MUNI. Like why is that a different era? Why can’t that be the current era?
          • Lammy2 days ago
            It was way more comfortable to sit on, soft surfaces help keep noise levels down inside the car, and I wash my clothes regularly :p
    • spike0213 days ago
      not sure about “seen it all” but definitely “screamed it all”. I haven’t ridden Bart in a while but i remember the banshee screeches.
      • RunningDroid2 days ago
        That must be what Barty's profile is referencing here:

        > Dislikes: Tight corners (screeches!)

  • archagon3 days ago
    (I kind of unironically want every public service to have a cute mascot that could be turned into a plushie.)
  • AStonesThrow3 days ago
    This is really cute and friendly. I like it; very much in-character for the BART.

    My own transit system has sort of developed two mascots. They are not as artful or clever as BART's, but they are designed with a utilitarian purpose: to demonstrate good vs. bad behavior while onboard.

    https://www.valleymetro.org/blog/2019/10/quick-guide-light-r...

    The characters are named "Right" and "Rong", both humanoids who are differentiated primarily by color and mood. Right, of course, does all the right things and abides by the rules, while Rong is a classic example of the scofflaw you wouldn't want sitting next to you.

    • bitwize3 days ago
      Reminds me of the perennial standbys from Highlights for Children, Goofus and Gallant.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goofus_and_Gallant

      • AStonesThrow3 days ago
        Yes it is totally Goofus/Gallant style! Right down to the simplistic verse of the slogans in the window decals. Thanks for making that comparison. I am sure they drew from that fabled tradition, so to speak!
  • clayhacks2 days ago
    Ok but when’s the actual anime coming? They need new revenue streams. I’d love a romanticised anime about these characters working to save Bart or the Bay Area or some nonsense
  • zghst2 days ago
    This train has a lot more history than you think. Something, something about the NSA and mind-reading. You would not believe it.

    The Anime Mascots are a good touch.

  • romanpoet3 days ago
    This has precedence for the LA Metro in 2017.

    https://observer.com/2017/10/la-metro-promotes-transit-etiqu...

  • irusensei2 days ago
    Everything is better with anime characters
  • repeekad3 days ago
    Obligatory reminder that BART is going to run out of its emergency funding by spring 2026
    • ddtaylor2 days ago
      Everything in government is always failing. It's a funding mechanism.
    • echelon2 days ago
      Does that mean BART ceases operation?
      • thaumasiotes2 days ago
        The only way that could happen is if San Francisco was vacated. Most likely would be that they provide more "emergency" funding.
  • bigcat123456782 days ago
    Good, no wifi, but Mascots. Yeah, I'd like some price hike as well.
  • rKarpinski3 days ago
    Baylee is 6' 2"?
  • TulliusCicero2 days ago
    Oh damn the heights on the mascots are very anti-stereotypical, 6'2" for the woman and 5'2" for the dude.
    • CoastalCoder2 days ago
      It's possible that some of the characters are written as trans-gender.

      It would be consistent with (at least my conception of) SF's public messaging.

  • 3 days ago
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  • zaptrem3 days ago
    Lol why do the info sheets include blood type?
    • creata3 days ago
      Giving the blood type of the character is common in anime and manga. Wikipedia links it to a belief that blood type can predict personality.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_type_personality_theory

      • 29athrowaway3 days ago
        You can also see it in Street Fighter II: The World Warrior.
      • godelski3 days ago
        Okay, but why are we importing pseudoscience?
        • bitwize3 days ago
          Because it's fun.

          I don't believe astrology is real, but I've assigned birthdays to some of my characters based on zodiac signs which are said to align with their personality, simply because it's cute and fun. I was inspired by the characters of Sailor Moon, each of which have a birthday in a zodiac sign ruled by their associated planet. (So Moon is a Cancer, Mercury is a Virgo, etc.).

          • godelski3 days ago
            I guess to each their own. I can see how it can be fun but when zodiac signs are discussed it is disproportionately about more than "fun" and that certainly biases me (and I think many others).
            • Lammy3 days ago
              Homestuck and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race (Terezi is my fav)
    • joshdavham3 days ago
      It’s from Japanese culture. Knowing a person’s (or a fictional character’s) blood type is something they find interesting. A bit like how we in the west find astrological signs interesting.
    • UncleEntity3 days ago
      For when BART police accidentally grabs their gun instead of their taser?
  • 2 days ago
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  • notpushkin2 days ago
    This is kinda cool, but... Coloring sheets? Seriously?
  • pinoy4203 days ago
    [dead]
  • _bin_3 days ago
    [flagged]
  • cubefox3 days ago
    [flagged]
    • KennyBlanken3 days ago
      Please explain what you're trying to say here.
      • cubefox2 days ago
        It's seems hypocritical. I also doubt I would have gotten downvotes and a flag if I had pointed out the counterfactual opposite bias.
    • geraldwhen3 days ago
      The first character is 6’2. Odds of being male are very very high
      • KennyBlanken3 days ago
        ...except for the "she" in her character card.
  • neilv3 days ago
    They're all female? I wonder whether the BART officials know all the connotations of different kinds of anime/manga fandom.