Like people are actively looking for ways to make sure the US feels the pain and consequences of their actions in little day to day ways.
I’d prefer it had a lot more nuance to be honest, I don’t think it’s particularly helpful to look at this through the lens of the entire country but yeah, I’m genuinely amazed at what I’m watching, people are NOT going to forget or forgive this shit anytime soon.
- "That country is NOT allowing our companies to exploit their citizens? Nobody give them any food until they kill-off their leader."
Things like a lot of people going to jail, abolishing the electoral college and moving towards an actually democratic system, binding themselves to the same international agreements that they expect of others (Americans should be able to be brought before The Hague for example).
Until that level of stuff can happen nobody is even remotely interested in having any kind of positive relationship with the country here.
also greenland, the next door over, and EU member
Absolutely no human, let alone nations full of them, will thank you for humiliation and attempting to grind them into the dust. This is not a negotiation tactic you can walk back.
The world is most certainly not taking advantage of a naive USA. Most of the world alleges the opposite FWIW
i think its gonna be dirty bombs. dirty bombs everywhere we can get them; just spread the Saskatchewan as far into the states as it can go. nukes are much less dangerous over the 10k year timeline vs a bunch of sask dirt. we dont need em, and maybe america will remember longer if new york is abandonned for a thousand years
its not disgust, its vindictiveness
What people in big countries do not realize is just how much their internal affairs radiate outwards. And this creates an atmosphere of:
small: "I know everything about you"
big: "I don't even know who you are"
I have learned over the years that the US is a huge, diverse and multi-layered phenomenom, so it deserves some nuance. But as an European I feel Trump and his minions giving us shit for e.g. US car manufacturers doing nothing to try to appeal to the European market (except for rebranding asian cars and whatever the fuck the PT cruiser was meant to be) is really a bit rich.
Most Europeans always felt their political leadership relied too much on the US, not because we extracted value from that, but because it was comfy to not have to think for yourself. They even tried to paper over the abuse of trust that came to light in the Snowden revalations (How would the US have reacted if the Germans had hacked the phone of the POTUS?).
Now with an openly hostile and erratic US president (EU offered a 0-tarrif deal to Trump before he introduced "retaliatory" ones) people feel less inclined to talk good about an already asymmetrical relationship.
Trump doesn't want partners, he wants vassal states. And if you really want those you either have to (A) use miltary force or (B) give them some psychological fig leaf they can use to convince themselves they are not indeed vassals.
Trump took the open secret of the fig leaf away and mocked Europe for accepting it in the first place. And the European population feels their trust is breached.
I don't say I like it to be that way or that the feelings are 100% justified, but that is the cause of the sentiment.
The damage is large inside the US, but all this crazy stuff hurts everyone around the globe economically. And even that pales compared to the threats that e.g. Canada received with the 51st state bullshit.
"none of your business" while expressing strong opinions about Canadian politics in the same sentence/paragraph.
Turns out it is entirely my business because look at the situation now.
Are you seriously suggesting Trump is better?
Canada is "weak" so he can say whatever garbage he wants, but I have to shut up. Trump is "strong" (or appears that way).
It's nothing more than the logic of playground bullies.
What always baffles me about that is, his public persona is essentially that of an angry baby. Like, is this seriously what anyone thinks strength looks like?
pure projection on your part
> “It’s pretty clear...,” Clinton continued, as Trump interrupted: “You’re the puppet!”
"DO NOT RETALIATE AND YOU WILL BE REWARDED"
in all capital letters.
Truly an age of diplomacy, intellect, and classical liberal values and ethics.
Trump is what a poor person thinks a rich person is.
Trump is what a weak person thinks a strong person is.
Trump is what a moron thinks a shrewd businessman is.
As though the entire Biden administration that precedes him doesn't play by this exact principle?
What is the alternative reality that the rest of the world or opposing parties in the US supposedly lives by? In what world does someone have to live at the behest of their opponents and professed haters and simply acquiesce and do whatever they say?
Before I became a Swedish citizen I never had a bad experience traveling back into Schengen, border agents were always cordial even on the instances where they were stern and serious. Even had nice interactions sometimes, at Schiphol with Dutch agents once they were quite funny, and light-hearted.
Every single time I traveled into the USA I experienced CBP agents being rude and suspicious, treating people like cattle on immigration lines, being talked down when being questioned, etc. The experience applying for my B1/B2 was also really annoying, not a great one being interviewed and grilled by a consul.
It's definitely different to go through USA's borders than most other places I traveled to.
In all cases it was a good experience. The process was more or less straightforward, and I was treated with respect (and in some cases kindness) by the public servants I dealt with.
Not once I was treated like I was an unwelcome guest.
And yeah, the cliche of AMericans being haughty gung-ho cowboys is true. They bark at people and clearly play the bully.
From my experience as an American I have never had the kind of hostility, the power trip, the 'why are you worthy to be here' that I receive coming home be experienced in any other nation.
This is one of the most evil things I've seen posted on HN.
Aside: Seems like a natural line of thinking in a country with a thriving privatised prison system.
And people in prisons (private or public) count towards total population in counties, giving them more weight in elections, despite none of the prisoners having chosen to be there voluntarily nor having the right to vote. https://www.vera.org/news/how-mass-incarceration-shapes-our-...
Except immigrants choose where they want to live.
The prisoners are where they are because the party in power (usually Republican, borderline neo-Confederate) creates laws that lead to extensive incarceration (such as "three strikes") and is the one which decides where to build prisons, which results in biased elections in their favor. Which reeks of the pre-civil war rules that slaves count for political weight.
These people work, buy things, and pay taxes. Just rapturing them out of the country will not benefit anyone.
I knew a good friend who lived in Okinawa, and never locked his front door even when going abroad
Then kindly explain to me how your analogy was intended.
-Terry Pratchett
— John Brunner, "The Shockwave Rider"
When you emigrate to another country, you're viewed much the same way as a non-citizen by the system.
There's a lot that could be done to make it virtually impossible to live in the US illegally long term, but it's just not being done.
The freak out about illegal immigrants is chronic though. It's weird, did you ever hear about any other place pulling their hair out that much over this issue?
Apparently we are even deporting EU citizens now.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/apr/09/german...
Most developed nations are going to have to choose the lesser of several "evils" very soon and there's almost no serious discussion of what the options actually are.
Grandma's generation shut down schools, clubs, community events, parks, etc, rather than share those things with black kids.
"Cut your nose to spite the brown kids" has kind of been their consistent position their entire lives.
In particular the children overboard scandal and stop the boats.
labour arrives to fill a need. the biggest problem is that the workers cant exert their rights
Yes? Lots of right-wing parties in European countries use the same rhetoric. Xenophobia is just a manifestation of humanity's propensity for tribalism, weaponized for political support. In the US we've had one party fight to make it as hard as possible to immigrate and remain in the country legally, and another party fight back by paralyzing enforcement and deportation. The result is the insane state we're in where we have loads of illegally-present residents going about their lives and contributing to our communities and economy.
I hate to invoke Godwin's law on the very first comment on a post, but the industrialization of deportations seems to have alarming parallels to the mass murder Jews and other minority groups in 1930’s and 40’s Europe. I read “Ordinary Men” by Christopher Browning a couple months ago and the thing that stuck out to me is that when the Nazi’s started killing people, they didn’t immediately jump to death camps. The initial steps of the holocaust began as a “deportation” scheme and it was a continual ramping up of the scale of murder.
They initially claimed they were going to deport these people to Madagascar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan
I’m not American so I may be missing some nuance here, but this seems a little terrifying to me.
You have Godwin's permission.[1]
Maybe not enough people have made the experience that (A) people following a genoicidal ideology still exist and (B) they try their best to wear the sheeps fur of populism while they try to get into power.
I grew up in an Austrian province with one of my grandfathers in the Wehrmacht, Nazis are weak idiots that always look elsewhere when there is a problem instead of fixing it at home. With 14 I met my first neo-nazis that were admiring their Nazi-grandfathers. All incredibly insecure people, who thought a violent ideology was the only way how they could make their environment perceive them as powerful and manly.
I said in the beginning of Trumps first presidential campaign that the guy is a fascist and got swamped with criticism, of how I could know that. I know that, because I grew up with the type that would love him and under the devastating governance of one Jörg Haider, one of the first "Neue Rechte" poltical heads in Europe. He famously had ties to the likes of Gaddafi before be died in self-inflicted car accident with two bottles of vodka in him.
Trump is still a fascist only this time he is also surrounded by fascists. Needless to say, historically that form of despotic governance didn't really last and lead to the worst atrocities in human history.
History has this weird thing of becoming invisible to many of the actors within it. I guess it takes a certain kind of mind (or is it just education?) to be the lobster that noticing the water becoming warmer. Without any frame of reference it could be train moving, or the landscape — those with some degree of historic education have some absolute frame of reference at least.
It's a debate, right? I get the current ruling party believes it has a mandate, but could you at least acknowledge a plurality of views on this?
I argue there is no need. Its fictive, performative. These are productive people.
Even the drug gangs are simply doing what citizens also do.
This is the wildest thing about all of this. This is not a problem to begin with. The "solution" is the actual problem, and the problem—people who want to live and work in the US—benefits US society.
But if that's the main issue, shouldn't the process of deporting them be in accordance with the law?
That’s some way from 10’s of millions — does your figure include other groups as well?
so of course he uses business analogies