45 pointsby mmoustafa9 days ago15 comments
  • Animats6 days ago
    "new and unique cinematic experience"

    Neither new nor unique. It's been done, many times. The classic is Kinoautomat, 1967.[1]

    Much video game design revolves around how to keep to the plot while giving the user some freedom. If the user is locked to a path, the game is called a "track ride". If the user can do whatever they want, it's an open-world game. Resolving that dichotomy is hard, but has been done successfully many times. GTA V is a good example.

    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinoautomat

    • AIPedant6 days ago
      There's also Guy Maddin's Seances, sort of a sister project to The Forbidden Room. It's free online: https://seances.nfb.ca/
    • n4r96 days ago
      The difference between Kinoautomat and Eno is that Eno actually doesn't give the user more freedom, since the scenes are randomly selected rather than selected by the audience. To put it another way: if you watch Kinoautomat twice, you can technically have the same experience twice.
      • appleorchard466 days ago
        Clue did something like this in 1985. It has a few different endings which were shown randomly in theaters, no indication of it either. It didn't go over well though.
    • h0l0cube6 days ago
      See also Dragon's Lair:

      > Most games in the Dragon's Lair series are interactive films where the player controls Dirk the Daring, in a quest to save Princess Daphne. The game presents predetermined animated scenes, and the player must select a direction on the joystick or press the action button in order to clear each quick time event, with different full motion video segments showing the outcome.[10] A perfect run of the 1983 arcade game with no deaths lasts no more than 12 minutes. In total, the game has 22 minutes or 50,000 frames of animated footage, including individual death scenes and game over screens.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon%27s_Lair

      > If the user is locked to a path, the game is called a "track ride". If the user can do whatever they want, it's an open-world game. Resolving that dichotomy is hard

      Actual generative AI (as opposed to that in the OP) holds promise in solving this conflict by being the story teller in place of the game designer. I'm curious to know what's happening in this space.

  • Nursie6 days ago
    Ah, Brian Eno.

    I played with a piece of music software of his many years ago now, mid 90s it was. Can't remember the name of it but it was an early attempt at sort of generative music.

    Simple concept - choose a few basic settings like BPM, then drag some instruments (represented as blobby icons) into a 2D box which represents the 'soundscape'. The horizontal axis of the soundscape represented displacement on the stereo channels, the vertical represented volume.

    Each instrument would play a part in the music. I can't remember if the were samples or used the old midi synth stuff, or how it was decided what notes they would play. The instrument icons were mobile in the box and would move around, bouncing off the walls, shifting from left to right speaker while disappearing and reappearing in the music that was generated.

    The idea was that the music was infinite and unique.

    Simple idea, fun to play with, I wonder if anyone got much more than an "Oh, neat" and five minutes tinkering out of it though...

    I bring it up because even though that was 30 years ago, it seems to be on-theme with this project.

    (Edit - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koan_(program) - turns out not to have been his creation, but he used it to publish music and wrote about it)

  • gibbitz9 days ago
    This raises a fundamental question about the role of Art in society. If I want to see all the content in this film I will have to watch it the rest of my life. This is great if I'm making money off of the content but terrible if I'm just curious about Brian Eno and want to see a well assembled, curated interview with him. Producing content with an AI that will re-edit the film on each watch makes post production easy for creators but leaves the task of editing on the viewer, like ringing up your groceries at the market. So why then does content exist? Is it to entertain viewers, to attract eyeballs to ads or as an outlet to creatives? I'd argue it should be a balance of the first and last (ads are a necessary evil today, but creative texts were not invented to provide context for advertising). Work that is fan service often doesn't provide the outlet desired by the creative and work that challenges the creative often bores the audience. This seems like it falls in the second category. No disrespect to Brian Eno.
    • Timwi6 days ago
      > Producing content with an AI that will re-edit the film on each watch

      They made it clear that it's not AI. They could have been clearer on what it is instead, but the impression I got is that it's procedural generation with a good old PRNG.

      • the-rc6 days ago
        Over the months, I watched it three times in person at NYC Film Forum, then another couple of times during the 24h January stream.

        It's not AI and it's not just random clips, either. The opening and the ending are always the same. Some parts like the segment on Oblique Strategies and how they shaped the recording of Bowie's Moss Garden were played (almost?) every time. The bit showing the evolution of U2's Pride from a yodeling demo to the finished song played half of the times. Same with the one about his Windows 95 start sound. I think the latter screenings had more examples of generative pixel/glitch art (each of which, presumably, was unique).

        My feeling was that segments were divided into categories and/or tags; their selection was like a chef's menu at a restaurant, where you don't know what you'll get, but you can expect that some kind of desserts are always at the end.

        Also, I don't think it's exactly true that each performance is different. Between segments, there's some computer output scrolling by and it includes a filename of the next clip. At the start of the movie, the (fake?) filename includes the venue and the date. I didn't stick around for two consecutive shows, but I think they're identical through the day. The 24h streams were different, of course.

  • p1dda6 days ago
    After reading about this documentary I became interested in watching, turns out I can't. Thanks for nothing I guess.
  • badlibrarian6 days ago
    In practice it seemed more lazy than illuminating. 30 hours of interviews of even the most fascinating person yields a fraction of useful material. Which in turn needs research and context to communicate in visual form.

    Likewise I'm glad Eno found a way to fund 500 hours of digitization of ephemera but again it needs to be curated, not put into an ffmpeg script.

  • allears9 days ago
    That's an interesting concept from the point of view of the artist, but from my point of view as a consumer, I want to see reviews and the reactions of my friends before I see a movie. This means I would never see the same movie they saw.
  • GauntletWizard6 days ago
    Haruhi already did it, though it's sadly been lost to time: https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/3xmlb2/spoilers_haru...

    I loved the Endless Eight, personally, but I watched them one a day after the event was over. Having read the LNs, I knew what was coming as soon as I got a whiff from the internet of the first episode, so I just held off, waited until it was over, and enjoyed.

  • p0w3n3d6 days ago
    I wonder why nobody mentioned Bandersnatch
  • curseofcasandra6 days ago
    “Synecdoche, New York”

    Depending on where I am, I get something different from this film.

  • mdp20216 days ago
    > randomly selects snippets

    This is much less than the faults in intelligence of generative systems. (E.g.: "make the visuals for the movie M as if created by director D" - which can result in a formal exercise without the depth that director D would have brought.)

    The sequence of the editing is of course an artistic process which represents an intelligent intention - a deliberate choice with grounds.

  • staticelf6 days ago
    I really have a hard time with people in the art world. There is nothing unique about the idea and it's really just a script putting together clips. Instead of actually making interesting art, people in this community often resorts to crappy things no one enjoy and wouldn't be able to survive unless they were given benefits from the state.
    • mandmandam6 days ago
      A teacher once told us, "Everything has been done before - but not by you". Tell 50 people to make their own version of any story, and you'll get 50 new stories (though yeah, a bit of originality is great).

      Also, artists need time to develop. Sturgeon's law isn't just for artists you know. Every artist knows that you generally have to create a lot of crap to get good. So when people give out about crap art, they're really just telling on themselves: "I don't create".

      Finally, for fun, try comparing fossil fuel subsidies to artist subsidies some time. "But we need fossil fuel" - try going a week without any art; no music, no movies, no games.

      • mikelevins6 days ago
        We need art, too. We may not know what we need it for, but we evidently need it for something.

        We've been making art for a really long time. We've been smearing colors onto surfaces for at least tens of thousands of years, and carving patterns into rocks and shells for at least hundreds of thousands of years.

        Everywhere you find human communities, you find some kind of art. We must need it for something. If we didn't then it wouldn't be so ubiquitous.

  • kyledrake6 days ago
    The unfortunate consequence of this approach for me is that I've been busy the few days they allowed the movie to be streamed, so I haven't been able to see it yet. Can't really put it on Netflix or YouTube if it has to be nondeterministic.
    • aaron6956 days ago
      > Can't really put it on Netflix or YouTube if it has to be nondeterministic.

      Like Bandersnatch or the 20 other Netflix interactive titles (Most gone now - https://www.netflix.com/browse/genre/2869704)

      They are shit. People want shared experiences and not thinking until you loop all the way to a computer game, the in-between is garbage.

  • slackfan6 days ago
    So we've basically reverse-engineered theater.
  • lofaszvanitt5 days ago
    People watch films for the experience, for the stimulation, and to be able to relive that exact experience at any time if they need to. So all this generative nonsense is just bullshit wrapped up in shiny packaging.
  • m3kw96 days ago
    If it came from a “LLM” prompt that is jail broken and in 5 or so years. Just say generate the movie Terminator 2