Dipping my toe in the water with the apps was not an experience that I enjoyed. I met my ex online at a time when people didn’t admit they met online. That was a far better time for online dating.
What I know with absolute certainty is that adding AI to the pre-meeting process is exactly the opposite of what I want, especially if that means I’m not interacting with the real person.
I already have a strongly stated “if we’re both interested based on our profiles, let’s just meet for coffee ASAP” preference, and the best dates have been with people who felt the same way. Anything else (aside from maybe a video call) just means we’re both building images of each other that may not be real. People are very different in person in many cases. Add an AI in the middle, and this is even worse.
I wholly agree with the point that adding an AI layer is just taking an already suboptimal situation and making it immediately worse.
I can’t help but feel like this is a market ripe for disruption. If the big apps start featuring AI, I think this becomes even more true.
Part of the problem is the abundance of profiles. We get trained to judge people on a very superficial level, because there's just too many people to properly analyze. I found myself going through phases of trying to swipe everyone right, and then through phases of being a lot more picky and swiping left of anyone that had the smallest flaw.
You're right that at the end of the day, the best way was to meet people IRL asap and get to know them that way. That being said, for busy full time adults, that's still a lot of work and effort.
Dating I find is especially hard for people who don't have third spaces. For introverts hanging out online. You can have third spaces online (twitch, discord, gaming communities), but it's harder to find local people there.
In order to develop true friendship, whether plutonic or romanic, there has to be a base of authenticity. Otherwise the relationship is built on deceit and will eventually erode. Obviously inserting an AI between you and a potential friend or parter is not in line with building the foundation of a healthy relationship.
[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs
It is a framework to start thinking about how needs can be prioritized but is does not necessary reflect the actual hierarchy of needs of individuals which is very culturally, economically and well individually dependent. People are naturally different and have different needs. Humans are way too complex for such a simple pyramid to provide accurate answers.
However, no one seems to believe that's possible despite being the ones that built the systems in the first place. It seems we're only able to build social systems by accident which incidentally is the worst way of doing it.
From watching friends use dating apps and go on dates: People with misleading profiles don't get very far. The lies get spotted quickly, often on the first date.
The people who play these games seem to be hoping that the other person will look past it, or that they can charm their way around it if they could just lie their way to the first encounter.
For 100% of my friends, it's a dealbreaker when they discover someone has been lying.
This isn't limited to text. The most common one is when people use photos from 5-10 years ago. I've heard so many stories of people arriving to first dates and barely recognizing the person because they're a decade older or significantly less physically fit. At this point it's almost like they're pleasantly surprised when the person they meet looks like their profile pictures.
Not may, will.
Furthermore, I will never wrap my head around why people would use AI for a use-case like this. It entirely defeats the purpose of interacting with people. If you are awkward, with enough time you will either find someone who is also awkward, or someone who doesn't care/finds it endearing.
Having a bot generate dialog for you is a weird step backward.
Everyone agrees that most of the point of a dating app should be to figure out if real-life interaction is pleasant and agreeable, but for lots of reasons it's difficult to get to that point.
Someone could be bad at texting and writing profiles but actually charming and a good fit to you when given the chance to have an actual date.
The idea so use a tool that helps you over the initial hurdle so you get a chance in the first place isn't that far fetched. Also speaking personally, I dislike texting and find dating apps a huge time waster, so automating the process sounds like a good idea.
I am not sure AI is the solution but the problem is real.
AI, if easier and worse, has the potential to accelerate the decline of online dating - already a hellscape - into something so terrible it is easier to avoid. AIAcc is a legitimate stance in the face of this.
Romantic relationship are commodified and transactional in nature. Brideprices and dowries preceded the dating app by millennia. In China, it's not uncommon to see literal marriage markets where parents sell their child's resumes to other parents as though their children were cars or cattle.
But people on dating apps are all of: frustrated, desperate, bored, exhausted, insecure, and frivolous, etc
For many (of all genders), any opportunity to distance themselves from those feelings while still imagining some kind of success is going to be enticing.
This argument breaks down when the other side is using a bot to respond, which of course they are.
If your sociopathic goal is solely to trick someone into an in-person date at which they might be too socially insecure (or too desperate for companionship) to decline sex, then it's a win for the person faking themselves.
This is definitely a sign that online dating apps as a whole are circling the drain, though.
What the people in the story grappled with was, would you truly want to meet your supposed soulmate or would you want to exercise your free will to find them yourself, even if perhaps that were a suboptimal process?
Edit: the story was The Perfect Match by Ken Liu [0]
[0] https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/the-perfect-match...
This feels more like cope than anything. We are stuck in an imperfect situation and tell ourselves it's better this way.
The "point, " so to speak, in the context of relationships, is that people do prefer to have a suboptimal choice if they can feel like they are the ones that made it. You should read the story that I linked that delves more into this.
Unfortunately (in the vast majority of cases), a lot of people do. They "do their own research" and go with healing cristals/essential oils, or choose a treatment "compatible with their religion" or some other nonsense. What you're describing is rational (delegating decision making in certain spheres, within reason, to educated people in those spheres), but a lot of people aren't.
It's partly just a feeling but I can sometimes feel changes in the algorithm and they're never for the better, unfortunately.
I do not know whats up with the people: Couple of weeks ago i had a dad, she had also 2 children; during the discussion it turned out that they have a battle regarding who is responsible for cleaning the bathroom+WC; i was shocked about their frequency (3 people!), so i said: why dont just get a cleaning support? In my language, there is a difference between male and female wording - since its very "common language", i used the "female version" of the cleaning support personel as most people do over here - then i got a punch for how irrespectful and sexist i am for using this wording and why i do not use a "neutral" version.
Edit: also I have no idea where you got “get a cleaning support” from, maybe a badly literalised translation for “cleaner”? Otherwise I’m not sure what english gendered term would elicit that reaction, housemaid seems too regular, “french maid” maybe? That might hit the archaic and loaded sexist implications? Otherwise, if not english, then I’m afraid perhaps the situation doesn’t directly translate well.
Wording: "get a cleaning support" - you mean, it sounds like i recommend someone to go to drug-cleaning-therapy and lot of people may get it wrong? :-D
example: im living alone and i also hired someone to do this. I do not get whats wrong about a useful suggestion? And esp. in this case, its not about the money that they do not hire someone
“Why don’t you just get someone in to clean”, specifically, may also cause a perception of criticism. Perhaps they want their kids to learn to do the chore for when they live alone. Etc.
Well, in this specific case: This wasnt our first date, we met already several times before; so i was not just throwing over this idea as a stranger.
And i get the educational-track here that you are pointing on - the thing is, if you would know about their frequency (as told by her), then you see that a critical level may be achieved at which you shouldn bet on "if-its-dirty-enough-the-kids-will-do-it-somewhen" ;-) ;-)
LOL :-)
AI will make it so much worse, so quickly.
I wonder if this will spark a return to more old-fashioned methods for finding dates.
Last year, i recognized a lady who also exits the same metro & bus at the same station sometimes, so i was looking forward that i will see her again one day. This happened: I have to note im somewhat above the average body height, as she is: id say she was around 1.89m, my own size - apart from the fact that i found her beautiful, i thought it would be somehow a "higher chance" to get to known her, since for tall women its actually not easy (if you are ~1.89m and you want someone who is at least the same size, 90%+ men are out!) and i "projected" that she may notice this. So when i saw her leaving the bus, i spoke to her and invited here to a coffee - she looked at me completely confused like i was trying to rob her. (it was a "daylight situation" short after lunch)
Not required to say that she never called back after handing her my number :-)))
Your reaction is an example of why dating is so hard for guys. There is no way to approach women without risking a potentially reputation-ruining reaction.
Not only do you have a mich higher chance of approaching someone who isn't available for dating in any context, you also signal that your only concern in dating in appearance and that you are incredibly socially inept and unaware of the contexts in which dating approaches are appropriate, neither of which are helpful to your cause, in most cases.
a) first, i didnt tell her my assumption?!!!
b) you are sounding like: "do not do any of those assumptions because they are wrong and listen..." - in fact: EVERYBODY is doing those assumptions/calculations when approaching someone, regardless the environment - so there is absolutely no reason to point out that my "behaviour" is somehow any specific to someone else - this is just disguise from yours :-)
c) what about all this buff then: "why does nobody invites me on a date?" and "why do men do not speak to women openly" etc. and all this stuff that we can read everywhere, like: Men have to approch Women, so i did. And failed. And now you have your perspective, thats OK.
d) WHENEVER you are speaking to someone in a club/socialevent/etc. your primary signal is appearance, so do not try to wrap this otherwise since experiments & data show absolutely whats going on.
You approached her cold on the street knowing nothing about her but her appearance. You don't need to tell your assumption. Women have brains.
> you are sounding like: "do not do any of those assumptions because they are wrong and listen..."
While I may have an opinion on the assumptions you are making, I am not at all expressing that. What I am expressing is that you are failing to consider important factors in your calculation, namely, the social context, and the impapct of the social context on the way your actions are perceived by someone doing their own set of calculations.
> what about all this buff then: "why does nobody invites me on a date?
This is about what happens in social contexts where dating intent is signalled, not in those where it is not.
> and "why do men do not speak to women openly"
"Speaking" here is not code for "invite on dates", and, again, this still is sensitive to appropriate social contexts.
> Men have to approch Women, so i did. And failed.
You have confused a broad (though not universal) social expectation that men should be the party to approach women with the concept that it is equally beneficial to do so in any social context and all that matters is that there is a woman you think you might want to date present to make it appropriate. This is...incorrect.
You have managed to wrap your brain around (even if you may have overgeneralized it) a single social expectation. Your success may be improved when you increase your capacity for processing social expectations relevant to your task to a quantity greater than one.
Also i have to admit, she is a smoker; something i could deal with (teethgrindingly) since i was one for myself years ago, but honestly: Today most men wont partner up with a lady who is a smoker. And in case of men today, if you are smoking you are actually out forever for any women: Smoking _is_ just disgusting :-D
So, my "gut-statistics" is just telling me that she is/was single with a very very high probality.
EDIT: before someone is coming with clothes or similar ideas: Im working in a decent office environment in which nice clothes are the standard (finance), so im not running around with jeans etc, also im in very good shape
Contrast that with the reactions any time there's an article about AI-assisted resume generation or job applications: The sentiment in HN comments (and in many places across the internet) is that using AI to write a resume and apply for jobs should be fair game because it's all a dumb process and companies can't accurately judge resumes anyway. You just need to say the right things to get past the gatekeeper so you can impress them in person (sound familiar?).
I think the primary difference is whether people think of the AI as helping them, or being used against them (with a layer of anti-corporate angst, of course).
Regardless, the premise appears to be the same: Use AI to game the system that people use to filter introductions, then hope that you can impress the other party once you're in front of them and talking naturally.
Personally, I feel like I've seen this fail more than it succeeds. Even before AI it wasn't uncommon for people to use misleading dating app photos or to exaggerate claims on resumes. Once the other party discovers you've been misleading them, they begin to wonder what else you're lying about.
The best case I can think of for these AI tools is people who struggle to write positively about themselves or who have poor self-awareness about the things they write. I've met a lot of people who are simply bad at writing, especially when it comes to themselves. Having an AI act as an impartial coach could help.
Using AI as a bot to flirt with people on dating apps through chat (mentioned in the article) just feels like a losing strategy, though, unless your goal is to play a numbers game.
These 2 scenarios don’t have any commonality. You’re comparing how AI is being used in two different types of “social games” that have wildly different stakes. The stakes make this incomparable.
Dating apps are about fostering human connection. AI posing as a person is the opposite of human connection
Meanwhile, not having a job for the vast majority people means you can’t eat. The system shouldn’t punish people for using a tool that helps them find work to survive
It may also not for some of them. For me, digital vs IRL is a different experience. My style of communicating is different.
> It could also erode the trust users have in the authenticity of others on the app. Who is using AI and who is a genuine, flesh-and-blood human tapping away behind the screen?
This is already a general issue for the whole internet, not just online dating.
If certain people struggle with social skills, they should get social skills training. Dating coaches exist. They're not cheap but exist.
> Many single people say that it has never been more difficult to find a loving relationship.
I agree, my last dating period was 3 years ago. It required a lot more skill than 15 years ago.
> homogenising profiles
This is already happening based on my experience. But they do forget though that during the dates the homogeneity goes out of the window by quite a bit. It's only the online part that has this.
> But proponents of dating app AI say that assistants and “dating wingmen”, as they’re known, could help reduce dating app fatigue
Not really as the recipient will now be wondering whether an AI is talking to her/him. So the fatigue is transferred.
> Last year, product manager Aleksandr Zhadan programmed ChatGPT to swipe through and chat to more than 5,000 women on his behalf on Tinder. Eventually, he met the woman who is now his fiancée.
That worked because it's still a growth hack. Not many people are doing it. The moment that many people are doing it, this probably won't work anymore. I made a simple autoswiper too, swiped through 200K profiles and found my wife that way. I did the chatting on my own because ChatGPT 3.5 couldn't keep up with my playfulness. Also, the chatting for me served as an anchor to start the date off with a blast. I specifically remember when I met my wife on our first date that I was groggy and cranky due to a severe lack of sleep. But when we met, one of us used callback humor from our Tinder conversation and our time with each other has been hype ever since. If I'd had used ChatGPT there, that date may have started off less well since I wouldn't know any of the playful things I'd have mentioned.
This app isn't helping.
That’s why if you’re online dating you need to be ready to meet in person right away, otherwise you’re wasting your time. A long conversation is not going to make you any less likely to be killed by a serial killer nor does it weed out guys just looking for sex. If someone looks good and doesn’t open with cringe or creepy lines just meet in a neutral place for coffee or drinks and take it from there, you may be glad you did. Don’t overthink it.
AI Dating Bots are a lie sold to people who think better messages are the key to success. The truth is your success has always depended on luck, the right match at the right time.
One of those turned into a decade long relationship, and when I returned, the time horizon was much shorter. I think too many women had been jerked around by men who never wanted to meet (perhaps because they were married).
Things have shifted yet again with the prevalence of bots and scammers. Which is too bad, because it had been an environment that suited me well: getting to know someone in a safe way, and to show them who I was.
Most people either have poor reading comprehension or lack ability to write clearly, and that's the worst combo for relationship building.
It's really no surprise that "dating" apps devolve into clicking a picture and hooking up for sex.
I don't date men, but the women I've dated often say that's their experience as well. Of course, those are women who also matched my communication style, so that may not generalize.