97 pointsby ragu4u2 days ago7 comments
  • Terr_2 days ago
    [Recycled comment from another submission]

    Very suspicious. (Dare I say "Concerning"? :p) From another source with a bit more context for those numbers:

    > Tesla’s Canadian stores are company-owned and directly controlled by the company. [...] Four Tesla stores in Canada each sold an average of 30 cars per hour, amounting to 120 cars per hour across all four locations—essentially one car every minute, 24 hours a day… for three straight days. And yes, this includes hours when the stores were closed.

    > Tesla’s $43.1 million in rebates took up more than half of the cash left allotted for EV subsidies remaining. That meant that by the time some other dealers attempted to get their own subsidies, the money had run out. [...] 226 [non-Tesla] dealerships submitted rebate claims for 2,295 electric vehicles but still haven’t been reimbursed, leaving them collectively out by C$10 million.

    -- https://www.carscoops.com/2025/03/tesla-accused-of-gaming-ca...

    • somerandomqaguy2 days ago
      We'll have to see. There's ways to pull this off while still operating within the letter of the law. And if they did so, then there's little that can be down to get it back. Worst would happen short of federal tariffs on Tesla products is that if the iZEV resumes, they're taken off the list of illegible vehicles.
      • oglopa day ago
        Oh I thought the worst would be the brand gets even worse promotion and goes even more in the tank in the public’s eye. Somehow.
    • anonfordaysa day ago
      Tesla does not sell vehicles at their "dealerships." Tesla is 100% online orders, you are not able to place an order at their showrooms with the staff. The showrooms double as delivery centers for entire regions. 30 cars per hour across a 100 mile radius as the EV subsidy is expiring is not impossible. Tesla does not collect the subsidies, the owners do.

      This is only "suspicious" because it's fake news.

      • somerandomqaguy19 hours ago
        The iZEV rebate is paid to the the point of sale who in turn is supposed to knock that price down for the owner. So it is a 'dealer' in that Tesla itself is the dealership.

        So yes it is suspicious. Especially considering that the Model Y starts much more expensive then it's competitors like the Mach E, the Ioniq 5, the EV6, the Equinox/Blazer, and Prologue. The only main advantage Tesla has is the Supercharger network and better software experience.

        Whether anything comes of it or not is an entirely different matter because there are ways of doing this that do not violate the letter of the law.

        • anonfordays16 hours ago
          >The iZEV rebate is paid to the the point of sale who in turn is supposed to knock that price down for the owner. So it is a 'dealer' in that Tesla itself is the dealership.

          No, the rebate is paid at point of sale to the purchaser of said vehicle, not to the dealership, and not to Tesla.

          >So yes it is suspicious.

          So it is not suspicious.

          >Especially considering that the Model Y starts much more expensive then it's competitors like the Mach E, the Ioniq 5, the EV6, the Equinox/Blazer, and Prologue.

          It's not that much more in price, and it's a much better vehicle than anything Ford or Chevrolet makes.

          >Whether anything comes of it or not is an entirely different matter because there are ways of doing this that do not violate the letter of the law.

          Nothing will come up because nothing happened. Consumers went on a buying spree because the rebate was quickly coming to a close.

          • somerandomqaguy12 hours ago
            >No, the rebate is paid at point of sale to the purchaser of said vehicle, not to the dealership, and not to Tesla.

            https://tc.canada.ca/en/road-transportation/innovative-techn...

            ========================================= To get reimbursed:

            Log into the ZEV application, select the selling dealership, and go to the “I want to view all iZEV requests submitted for this dealership/authorized seller.” Then search the Service Request ID # of the Eligibility Assessed request and upload the sales/lease agreement and the Incentive Received Form. Make sure that all documents are complete and include all signatures and information required.

            [...]

            iZEV Online Application: request status

            [...]

            Rebate Sent

            The dealership has been sent a payment, and you'll be notified by email. This email will include the payment amount, the service request ID and the Vehicle Identification Number. Some banks may take up to 5 business days to deposit the funds into your account.

            ========================================

            Straight from the horses mouth; the dealership is reimbursed. The buyer pays a lower out of pocket price. It makes no sense to have the reimbursement go to the owners directly as part of the point of sale. Transport Canada would need have to have electronic payment systems setup for every EV buyer along with all the privacy and financial handling headaches that such a government system entails.

            >It's not that much more in price, and it's a much better vehicle than anything Ford or Chevrolet makes.

            The Mach E starts at $58,000. The Ioniq 5 at $55,000. The EV6 at $56,000, the Aryia at $52,000, and the ID4 at $44,000.

            The Model Y start at $65,000. It's a significant chunk of change even for middle class Canadians.

            >Nothing will come up because nothing happened. Consumers went on a buying spree because the rebate was quickly coming to a close.

            Maybe, maybe not. There's also ways that I could see this legitimately happening. But at the end of the day it's still highly unusual behaviour that bears further scrutiny. Also known as the being suspicious.

      • Terr_19 hours ago
        Dude, "LOL online orders exist" is not the slam-dunk you think it is here.

        First, that single weekend's 8.6k sales (if the timestamps are to be believed) are than Tesla's Canada sales for the entire prior month (Dec 2024) as well as exceeding the total for any month in 2024.

        Second, even a mob of frenzied Canadians car-buyers would probably fall more-evenly across different sellers, and across more days of the month, rather than being so unusually-concentrated.

        Finally, remember that the incentive program was already slated to end within another month or two, not a year later or whatever. This places limits on how big we can expect the crowd of procrastinating car-buyers to be, especially since for most people cars are not impulse-buys.

    • iJohnDoea day ago
      Did they just funnel and move cars through the Canada based dealerships that were for sales in other parts of the world? Does Tesla normally sell that many cars in three days?
      • Terr_a day ago
        Even then it would likely still be some variety of fraud, since the rebates are limited in scope to "Canadian individuals and businesses", and the business-limit is 10 no matter how many separate ones on paper an owner tries to craft.

        https://tc.canada.ca/en/road-transportation/innovative-techn...

        • anonfordays21 hours ago
          This is not fraud. Tesla does not sell vehicles at their "dealerships." Tesla is 100% online orders, you are not able to place an order at their showrooms with the staff. The showrooms double as delivery centers for entire regions. 30 cars per hour across a 100 mile radius as the EV subsidy is expiring is not thst hard to do. Tesla does not collect the subsidies, the owners do.

          This is only "suspicious" because it's fake news.

          • Terr_17 hours ago
            > > > Did they just funnel and move cars through the Canada based dealerships that were for sales in other parts of the world?

            > > Even then it would likely still be some variety of fraud

            > This is not fraud.

            The scenario they brought up of misrepresenting non-Canadian buyers as Canadians in order to take rebates from the Canadian government would absolutely be fraud.

            As for your "online orders" thing, I've replied in another thread.

  • chgs2 days ago
    I’d data analysts is good enough to fire people and close departments it’s good enough to stop payments to an enemy.
    • 2 days ago
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    • Terr_2 days ago
      I'm having trouble parsing your comment.

      The most-charitable formulation I can can come up with is something like:

      "We know Musk already possesses a personal staff of unscrupulous geeks and likes to illegally stop payments. Therefore it is likely they were engaged in payment fraud here too, where the "enemy" Canadian government is hurt by stolen funds, and "enemy" car-competitors are hurt by the rebate pool being suddenly empty."

      • snailmailstare2 days ago
        If Doge wouldn't pay out then Musk can't complain when Canada doesn't.
  • HarHarVeryFunny2 days ago
    > One Tesla location in Toronto reported more than 1,200 sales on January 11 alone, accounting for $4 million in [Canadian government] rebates.

    Sounds like Musk being a dick - sticking it to Canada to please/amuse his boss.

    • throwaway57522 days ago
      This is a very internet take. Being a dick is personal behavior. Falsifying sales records to receive rebates is criminal fraud, regardless of how nicely you do so.
      • anonfordays21 hours ago
        This is not fraud. Tesla does not sell vehicles at their "dealerships." Tesla is 100% online orders, you are not able to place an order at their showrooms with the staff. The showrooms double as delivery centers for entire regions. 30 cars per hour across a 100 mile radius as the EV subsidy is expiring is not thst hard to do. Tesla does not collect the subsidies, the owners do.

        The "fraud" narrative being pushed about this is because this is fake news.

        • throwaway575214 hours ago
          By all means send me the regulations for rebate and some concrete information, I'm open to being convinced otherwise by facts.
          • anonfordays13 hours ago
            YOU make the claim, YOU bring sources. Your claim (or the claim you support):

            "Falsifying sales records to receive rebates is criminal fraud, regardless of how nicely you do so."

            You don't have any sources to back it up, so it can be dismissed outright.

            • throwaway575212 hours ago
              My source is the original article

              The Canadian Automobile Dealers Association has urged Transport Canada to investigate, citing potential misuse of the rebate system. Attempts to reach Tesla for comment have gone unanswered.

              The federal EV rebate program, facilitating over 500,000 electric vehicle purchases since its inception, was paused on January 13, 72 hours after the government signaled its potential suspension. Officials are now reviewing the Tesla sales data to determine if any irregularities occurred during the program’s final days.

              A simple search yields https://tc.canada.ca/en/road-transportation/innovative-techn... for citations of program overview.

              - "Individuals are eligible for one incentive"

              - "Organizations and businesses are eligible for up to 10 incentives. Organizations and businesses that share common ownership, other than common ownership as a result of being a publicly traded company, are considered as one single organization eligible for a combined total of 10"

              - "The incentive will be applied at the point-of-sale by the dealership once they have confirmed your eligibility"

              The story is that Tesla sold as many cars, at four dealers in three days, almost as many as they sold in Canada in all of Q1 2024 at a time when their Canadian sales are trending down.

              There are 1440 minutes in a day, they sold 8600 cars. Assuming a 12 hour dealer workday at 4 dealers. Articles say 2 cars a minute, I get one car per minute. It still they correctly process the incentives at point of sale or delivery? The investigating will find out.

              The fraud also might be if anyone bought their own vehicles to sell later, or are otherwise violate the 10 rebates per organization limit and attempted to hide this.

  • turnsout2 days ago
    They're running scared and trying everything. This stock is going back to $15
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  • thatguy09002 days ago
    Why not go for one last government grift before you get kicked out of the country for spearheading efforts to start a war, I suppose
    • glass_doora day ago
      [dead]
    • snailmailstare2 days ago
      [flagged]
      • thatguy09002 days ago
        Kidnapping and killing president #2 would certainly be a bold decision. I suppose if they're going to be annexed anyway why not.
      • Delomomonl2 days ago
        [flagged]
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