40 pointsby znano2 days ago9 comments
  • hudon2 days ago
    “ Cash is Censorship-Resistant, meaning it cannot be blocked by banks or governments”

    No crypto is large enough to be useful as cash and yet still censorship resistant. Governments can and have censored developers, miners, and exchanges. Monero is no exception, as highlighted at the beginning of the article. Further censorship is just a matter of time, not capability.

    • LiquidSky2 days ago
      Yeah, I never understood this "censorship resistant" nonsense. It seems completely disconnected from the real world. The Internet is not some magic fantasyland in another dimension. If a government made it illegal to possess, use, or accept any crypto your choice of protocol won't matter.
      • desumeku2 days ago
        If it's so easy, why don't they just enforce it? Go ahead and try and catch people when they make Monero transactions and arrest them, considering the entire protocol is designed to make that as hard as possible.
        • SR2Z12 hours ago
          Sure - you can't stop regular people from making small purchases from other regular people.

          But the INSTANT that a regular person becomes a regular small business, the tax authority can and likely will ask to see their records. The INSTANT someone buys a car, the government will be interested in knowing how they paid for it.

          Even in the most extreme situation, the government can and will demand taxes to be paid in its preferred currency. How are you gonna get hold of a substantial amount of dollars or remnibi or whatever without getting caught?

          This stuff is enforced and no amount of math can beat thousands of years of the state figuring out how to collect taxes.

        • SAI_Peregrinus2 days ago
          A law making something like Monero illegal isn't intended to catch all users of the thing, it's intended to be able to add charges to cases involving other things.
      • bitwize2 days ago
        Yeah, it's not the 90s anymore. "Cyberspace" does not exist outside national boundaries and laws... and law enforcement is tech savvy, they WILL drop the hammer. Checkmate, lolberts.
        • southernplaces78 hours ago
          You almost seem gleeful at the idea of creeping repression, increasingly severe social controls and a heavy handed state being able to crush what it pleases, with no recourse for rebellious efforts.

          So much for the "hacker" in hacker news, and all the ethos behind that word. Instead what we get is pedantic social control freaks flinging smugness as if it were feces at anyone who dares think about the usefulness of things that work around surveillance.

  • cbradford2 days ago
    Monero is the last refuge of freedom in the monetary system. Its a beautiful replacement for cash, a true work of art
    • ofrzeta2 days ago
      Yeah, and that's also why regulators are making it harder and harder to acquire Monero (if you come from fiat), at least in the EU.
    • Razele2 days ago
      [flagged]
  • morbicera day ago
    Monero was the only coin that made sense to me back in the 2017 crypto craze. A real anonymous and government free currency. To this day I am salty that Bitcoin won, such a shitty coin, now firmly embraced by governments, full of regulation. Slow, high fees, not really accepted by merchants. Just a "gold" made out of thin air.
  • criddell2 days ago
    Satoshi also claimed (in an email to Mike Hearn) that Bitcoin can beat VISA with higher transaction volume and lower processing fees. Has Monero achieved this goal as well?
    • null0pointer2 days ago
      Bitcoin could have achieved that goal if it had been allowed to scale. Monero uses a dynamic block size so will be able to achieve the transaction throughput if usage reaches that level. Transaction fees on Monero however are limited to a few tiers in order to make it more difficult to deanonymize transactions by fee size, so without a fork in the future (which is a normal occurrence on Monero) the fees will remain higher than Visa.
    • cantSpellSober2 days ago
      Satoshi claimed a lot. For the purpose of the title the Promise was peer-to-peer permissionless transactions, with a weakness:

      > public ledger cryptocurrencies have most of the characteristics of cash except one thing: Untraceability

      The author argues Monero fills a missing case:

      > untraceable cryptocurrency while keeping all of cash’s characteristics

      • criddell2 days ago
        One of cash's characteristics is that I can give my neighbor $1 and my net worth drops by exactly $1 and theirs goes up by that amount. There's no fee.
        • cantSpellSober2 days ago
          Yes

          > cryptocurrencies have most of the characteristics of cash

          • criddell2 days ago
            > untraceable cryptocurrency while keeping all of cash’s characteristics
            • lcnPylGDnU4H9OF2 days ago
              Surely this is a place where a good faith reading solves the conundrum. If the author had written, "while keeping the cash-like characteristics" we wouldn't be here and they would have made the same point they were trying to make.
              • criddella day ago
                The cryptocurrency field is so overrun with bullshitters and con artists that I have a hard time being very charitable. You're right though - I should have just assumed that they were exaggerating for rhetorical effect and not trying to mislead.
              • refulgentis2 days ago
                Fwiw, I guess I'm not particularly up on crypto or coin lore.

                I've been very aware of it since many many moons ago.

                Even then, I guess I don't know what's obviously bad faith.

                The other user's comment doesn't appear bad faith to me.

                In fact, I thought it was clever, as it advanced my understanding of matters as they are.

                Am I wrong?

                Am I doing bad faith?

                Are we sure they are?

                • It’s a common rhetorical trick to refute one thing someone said and pretend it refutes everything they said. I honestly don’t know how to say it better than I did in my initial comment.

                  What if the author had just written "while keeping the cash-like characteristics" instead of "while keeping all of cash’s characteristics"? Does that meaningfully change the author’s point? I don’t think so and I would expect someone reading the article in good faith isn’t going to say, "But you said all!"

                  No, you’re not wrong.

                  No, your comment does not seem to be in bad faith.

                  The comment I initially responded to absolutely was.

                  • refulgentisa day ago
                    Gently, I'd ask you to consider reading both mine, and his, comments with some more grace, whether it be theirs with charity, or mine with respect for what I mean.

                    Their comment was absolutely not in bad faith.

                    With grace, I would say not everyone has as considered views as you do. That can make it challenging and frustrating to deal with because you know better.

                    It's worth showing them, or at least telling them, instead of discussing your opinion of their motivations for saying things, which we can agree is, at best, mind-reading among strangers in a textual format.

                    • 16 hours ago
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        • OutOfHerea day ago
          That's not actually true. The fee is implicit in the continuous and perpetual inflationary devaluation of the currency. Moreover, this fee applies whether you transact or not.
          • jxjnskkzxxhxa day ago
            Inflation in not a transaction fee. At most you could call inflation a cost. You sound like you're just playing with words.
            • OutOfHerea day ago
              I said as much. Inflation is a holding cost. Ultimately, all costs matter, whether for holding or for transacting.
              • jxjnskkzxxhx20 hours ago
                You didn't say as much. You said inflation is a fee; inflation is not a fee.
                • OutOfHere18 hours ago
                  Inflation is 100% in effect a fee on holding.

                  As the saying goes, if it quacks/walks/acts like a duck, you can decorate it with all the lies you want; it is a duck.

  • maremmano2 days ago
    What about Monero competitors? I think about ZCash or, maybe, some new kids on the block? :)
    • OutOfHerea day ago
      Even Litecoin officially supports privacy these days via Mimblewimble / MWEB, although the privacy is not as strong as Monero. Litecoin is easier to work with since all crypto exchanges support it unlike with Monero. I would like to see Bitcoin similarly support Mimblewimble / MWEB.

      Bitcoin Lightning also has privacy, although it's not as strong as MWEB and obviously nowhere near Monero.

  • bitbasher2 days ago
    RIP Len.
  • m00dy2 days ago
    The entire darknet industry revolves around this small yet precious thing, something to be proud of.
    • madethisnow2 days ago
      USD is so much cleaner, true
    • yapyap2 days ago
      Is this sarcasm? Truly can’t tell to be honest.

      I’m assuming it isn’t cause having privacy so great a whole industry can be revolved around it is indeed something to be proud of.

      • desumeku2 days ago
        HN is all about privacy, security, never trusting Google ever ever, etc. until it comes to crypto, and then all of a sudden it's well only criminals would want that and don't you know they can probably trace you anyway etc.
        • this place is only good for reading about topics that don't get opinionated coverage from the media. otherwise, you just get regurgitated diarrhea from people who are incapable of forming their own opinions or keep their existing opinions in face of adversity, when the overton window shifts.

          crypto got heavily bombarded with bad press at some point during COVID era - I remember seeing 2-3 articles per day on the front page here, for weeks, about how le bad it is for the environment, etc. and that was enough to change the public sentiment here from indifference to knee-jerk, Pavlovian reaction to anything related to it.

        • SR2Z12 hours ago
          There are many objections to crypto on this site and they're almost never about privacy or security. It's disingenuous to pretend that:

          - stability

          - throughput

          - power consumption

          - taxation

          - monetary policy capabilities

          are all made-up objections from people watching too much cable news.

          Yes, the consequence of crypto's failure to support a large subset of these is best distilled as "this is useful for criminals, grifters and not many others."

  • 2 days ago
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  • bdcravens2 days ago
    Not sure if it's still the case, but Monero's main use case seemed to be making CPU mining viable (ie, hacking cloud accounts for profit). It's so fun to deal with $50k of surprise AWS charges on a Saturday morning. (Thankfully AWS is pretty forgiving in terms of letting you get those charges removed)