177 pointsby Jimmc4145 days ago21 comments
  • Havoc5 days ago
    Hilariously obvious that someone's pet project got tacked on there at the end. Kilometer wide structures please - or alternatively can you make us a tube of bio glue to fix punctures?
  • transistor-man5 days ago
    I'm here to welcome the era of bamboo based spaceships
    • ceejayoz5 days ago
      There's a little one in orbit right now.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LignoSat

      (although that's magnolia wood, not bamboo)

      • edaemon5 days ago
        Woah, a wooden satellite, that's awesome! Somehow that feels more like a uniquely Earthly thing out there in space.
        • prennert4 days ago
          Its also uniquely Japanese. From the wikipedia article:

          > The satellite was assembled through a traditional Japanese crafts technique without screws or glue.

    • itishappy5 days ago
      I for one am prepared for our evolution into the Ousters.

      If you haven't read the Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons, go read it. It's worth it.

      https://hyperioncantos.fandom.com/wiki/Ousters

      • jajko4 days ago
        I loved how diverse those back stories of each characters were. A bit of cyberpunk, a bit of politics, interesting concept of time reversal.
      • Henchman215 days ago
        I immediately thought of the Templar’s tree ships. Clearly time for a re-read!
    • 5 days ago
      undefined
  • JumpCrisscross5 days ago
    Whoever is doing DARPA’s PR and, apparently GR, since I guess federal agencies have to do that now, deserves a raise.
    • jordanb5 days ago
      EP: Elon Pandering, an essential function for any agency these days.
      • nulld3v5 days ago
        LOL as much as I disagree with Elon's current stint in government, this is probably among the most tame projects in DARPA's portfolio.
        • sandworm1014 days ago
          Most tame and most not-classified.
        • initramfs5 days ago
          tame as seaweed wrapped around your ankles in shallow water, i might say.
    • arolihas5 days ago
      doesn't sound very efficient to me
    • lovich5 days ago
      what is GR?
      • azemetre5 days ago
        Guessing government relations, similar to PR being public relations.
        • JumpCrisscross5 days ago
          Yup. Lobbyists are outside your org. GR coördinates their messaging.
          • lovich5 days ago
            Unrelated, but I appreciate the proper usage of the English umlaut
            • andsoitis4 days ago
              Two dots over a letter can be one of three types:

              - umlaut

              - diaeresis

              - trema

              A diaeresis signals you pronounce the vowel separately, a trema signals the pronunciation of the previous vowel (e.g. in the French ambiguë), an umlaut changes the sound of the vowel ( the German a sounds a bit like the English a in bat, but ä sounds like the English e in bed).

              In this instance the double dot is a diaeresis.

              https://thelanguagecloset.com/2023/05/27/diaresis-trema-umla...

            • jihadjihad5 days ago
              The formal name for it is diaeresis [0]. The New Yorker is famous for being a high-profile publication that enforces its usage.

              0: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_(diacritic)

              • marxisttemp5 days ago
                Notationally I wish the diaeresis was a single dot. It bugs me that we’re using two dots to separate two syllables, yet both dots are over the second syllable. Plus a single dot would avoid ambiguity with the umlaut (though I suppose there are very few words with both features).
                • robocat4 days ago
                  A Tittle for a single dot is a lovely word: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tittle

                  Your idea is unfortunately naïve about current usage.

                • lovich5 days ago
                  A lot of glyph based idiosyncrasies like that in languages scripts are artifacts of the era of physical block types before we had shit like hot cast linotyping where the blocks were made on demand.

                  What probably happened is umlauts were used a lot in German and some lazy typesetter wasn’t going to waste a perfectly good block sitting around that he could reuse

              • myth20185 days ago
                Initially I thought the grandparent was just making some fun of a mistake, but I ended up learning something new. Thanks.
  • whyenot4 days ago
    This reminds me of Larry Niven's Integral Trees. Very cool!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Integral_Trees

  • PaulHoule5 days ago
    This is a theme in "The Web Between the Worlds" [1]

    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Web_Between_the_Worlds

    • card_zero5 days ago
      Wow, there's some serious zeitgeist going on there:

      This novel was published almost simultaneously with The Fountains of Paradise by Arthur C. Clarke. Through an amazing coincidence the two novels contained many similarities. Both protagonists are engineers who have built the world's longest bridge using a machine named the "Spider", both of whom are hired to build a space elevator, and both engineers modify their Spiders to produce a crystalline fiber.

      It's like the simultaneous invention of calculus. People are conduits for independently-living ideas.

      • Telemakhos5 days ago
        The idea of spider webs in space was explored long before, in the second century AD, by Lucian of Samosata in his _Ἀληθῆ διηγήματα_ or "True Stories." Spiders run webs from the sun (land of the Heliots) and the moon (the Selenites) so that a vast space battle can be waged on a plain between them.
        • dekhn5 days ago
          I initially downvoted this because it sounded ludicrous and couldn't be true, but indeed, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_True_Story

          Always fun to see stuff written almost 2 thousand years ago about life on other planets.

      • fooker5 days ago
        If you have spent time in academia, this concept is ever present.

        Somehow all the academics in a particular field all over the world just happen to agree on a narrow set of ideas to explore next.

        Most of science happens like this, yes even the Newtons and Einsteins of the world explored ideas in this narrow frontier of next ideas. There used to be exceptions in the distant past but modern science does not tolerate exceptions.

        • glenstein5 days ago
          When you say "exceptions" I can't tell if you mean to be hinting toward something like new-agey crystals, or something more like DARPA bio structures, or something else entirely. What is the frontier of unexplored knowledge that is forbidden by academia?
        • dekhn5 days ago
          I can't remember the source (xkcd?) that drew any individual scientist's contribution as a tiny little bump on the edge of a huge circle.

          It's not talked about it much outside of research groups, but for any field, there is a small number of people who are currently pushing the boundaries, and they all read each other's papers and have a good idea of what the next question to ask is. It can often be a race to engineer an experiment that convinces the reviewers that your article should be published first. It's a sort of cooperation/competition that moves the field forward faster. These areas often move so fast that nobody even bothers to write down the current problems, it's just sort of talked about in person.

          Put another way, the successful discoverers are the ones looking for their keys at the end of the streetlight: "Science is a bit like the joke about the drunk who is looking under a lamppost for a key that he has lost on the other side of the street, because that's where the light is. It has no other choice." (Chomsky). Few if anybody looking where there is no light discovers anything (even if it's sitting there in the dark), or at least, nobody believes them unless they provide significant evidence (like building a new lamp)

          • Merrill5 days ago
            "Building new lamps" is why the engineers and technicians developing new scientific instruments and experimental processes deserve more credit than they get.
            • dekhn4 days ago
              Yes- after many years of being a theory guy I actually did a 180 and started building my own scientific instruments, because the acquisition cost of a research microscope is so high. This allows me to experiment quickly with new ML algorithms, and I've greatly increased my respect for the people who toil to make the hardware for next-generation discovery science.
          • WorkerBee284745 days ago
            > I can't remember the source (xkcd?) that drew any individual scientist's contribution as a tiny little bump on the edge of a huge circle.

            https://matt.might.net/articles/phd-school-in-pictures/

            • xolox4 days ago
              That's a really nice way to visualize how modern human knowledge is extended through scientific efforts. Thanks for sharing! (thanks also to the GP who introduced the concept)
            • initramfs5 days ago
              new to me. thanks!
        • moelf5 days ago
          this. Even something as singular as the prediction of the Higgs boson was ~simultaneously reached by different groups(!) of people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_PRL_symmetry_breaking_pap...
          • PaulHoule5 days ago
            I don't see it as that singular. Either

            (1) hep-th had too many people chasing too few problems back then, or

            (2) "scalar field with a mexican hat potential" is one of the simplest field theories you can write though it inspires all sorts of ideas like the Higgs Mechanism, Inflation, etc.

        • pegasus5 days ago
          Calculus I can understand, but the kind of coincidence GP describes is much harder to explain.
      • itishappy5 days ago
        "A clear case of plagiarism? No — merely an idea whose time has come." - Clarke
  • Falimonda5 days ago
    Can we / will be ever be able to grow bioengineered coral at an accelerated rate with a desired growth structure/direction in space?
    • daveguy5 days ago
      Accelerated rate with equivalent integrity probably requires some engineering tricks nature hasn't "figured out" yet. Given nature has had a few billion years of massively parallel processing of the original genetic algorithm, it's unlikely. Especially considering ASI is a pipe dream. Also, sea creatures use buoyancy to their advantage.

      Maybe we will find other structure development systems from combining existing pieces of biologic systems. But that's also unlikely, because biologic systems are so incredibly entangled (to use a software concurrency/complexity term).

      That said, it is an awesome research direction, just for the novel construction techniques potential.

  • yummypaint5 days ago
    Wonder if anyone is looking into splicing those spider silk genes into a fungus. Maybe the mycelium could gain enough tensile strength to hold pressure? Maybe exude the proteins and form strong tubes around itself? Fungal structures are already surprisingly light for how strong they are.
    • beanjuice4 days ago
      What I don't understand about the proposal is that every c-c bond the fungus could make still has to be shipped from earth.
  • kazinator5 days ago
    We kind of have microgravity on Earth under water, which provides apparent reduced weight due to buoyancy. Coral reefs and all that.

    Underground root/rhizome structures are also bio structures existing in a kind of microgravity since they are firmly supported by the surrounding soil they are packed into.

    • paxys5 days ago
      Yeah, but getting these structures into space is 99% of the challenge. Best to build them there to begin with.
  • tonetegeatinst5 days ago
    Feedsto ck is the moon...its literally resources we don't have to transport into space if we use the moon.
    • inetknght4 days ago
      That's not quite how gravity wells work.
  • xvilka4 days ago
    Reminded me of coral based living spaceships of The Night's Dawn trilogy by Peter Hamilton.
  • krashidov5 days ago
    serious question - how do you water it?
  • eGQjxkKF6fif5 days ago
    Would hemp be viable in this case?
  • genman5 days ago
    What would be feed stock for this?
    • JoelMcCracken5 days ago
      Either human blood or potatoes, the two options.
  • alexfromapex4 days ago
    If it's complimentary, doesn't that mean it's free? Why do they need a contract then?
  • tz185 days ago
    This is the sort of shit that gets you glassed by the watchers
  • smfjaw5 days ago
    the flood!
  • xeonmc5 days ago
    Between this and the drone-swarm command experiment from yesterday, seems like whoever is heading DARPA mains Zerg in StarCraft.
    • 7thaccount5 days ago
      Might also have something to do with the war in Ukraine completely changing our understanding of modern warfare. Defense projects take decades to design and build and now out doctrine is somewhat impacted by how effective drones are proving to be.
      • inetknght4 days ago
        > the war in Ukraine completely changing our understanding of modern warfare

        Am I crazy to think that the war in Ukraine hasn't changed my understanding of modern warfare?

        Maybe I'm in the wrong business.

        • dmos624 days ago
          Do you discount the impact of drones, or did you put a lot of value in them before the war and still do? I find the tactics around using expendable troops to attrit expensive troops a bit humbling too.
          • Out_of_Characte4 days ago
            Drones have always been in extensive use during warfare. Though in the past it was only very high altitude gliders of the american military whereas today there are countless low-altitude consumer grade drones.
            • 7thaccount4 days ago
              I think this is a little pedantic or maybe I'm just being too ambiguous lol. I'll try to make my thoughts more clear as it's likely the latter.

              You're absolutely right that drones have been used for awhile, but that has mainly been for reconnaissance and some extremely expensive predator drones. The idea of having thousands of small consumer grade drones mass produced cheaply to terrorize a much larger army by dropping grenades on soldiers and live streaming it on the internet is definitely a new development. There are drone swarms covering our major military ships as well and it's unknown whether it's our own military doing it as part of a black ops program (I assume it's possible, but highly unlikely) or a hostile foreign power doing recon. Russian tanks are also getting dissected by RPGs at an unexpected rate. The Ukrainians took out major Russian warships by distracting the ship with drones and then ramming it with a jet ski torpedo.

              Modern militaries are scrambling to find new technology and strategies for how to handle these new capabilities.

          • inetknght4 days ago
            > Do you discount the impact of drones, or did you put a lot of value in them before the war and still do?

            I don't discount the impact of drones, quite the opposite. I did, and still do, put a lot of value in them. Point in fact: I worked in the commercial UAV industry (in the USA) before and during the war, though recently laid off. I feel like I was underutilized.

            As a matter of fact, drones aren't being used as much as I expect them to be, nor in all the theatres that I expect them to be.

            For air:

            UAVs for surveillance? Yes, we've seen plenty of videos of this. But not to the extent that I expect. Color and thermal video? Yup. Ground radar? Not so much. Air radar? Nope. Radio signal extension/repeaters? Sort-of, not really. Decoys? Recently yes but not quite used for the purposes that I expect.

            UAVs for dropping bombs? Yes, plenty of this. But the examples I see are typically quite crude compared to what I expect... with an emphasis on cheaply produced vehicles capable of dropping generically-attached bombs. Makes sense given the economics of the war. But these are IMO over-represented compared to what other capabilities UAVs could have. Dropping incendiaries (eg, dragon burning a forest) seems to be an evolution in kind but not really a revolution of new tech.

            UAVs for suicidal destruction? Yes, we see this too, mostly against ground vehicles. These are crude, but seem to be quite effective.

            UAVs for ground strafing? I see very little, if any, of it. I think this would probably be more effective than dropping grenades (let the computer do the aiming) so I'm surprised I don't see this concept used much.

            UAVs for air superiority? Very little, very crude. I don't see many weapons mounted on drones shooting at other manned or unmanned air vehicles. I see more UAVs trying to ram other UAVs instead. I don't see UAVs having missiles mounted on them (though the UAV itself might be a missile...). I think there's a lot of underrepresented opportunity for UAVs to have light missiles for air-to-air capability. Conversely, I do hear a lot of complaints from both sides about the other side's use of UAVs, which tells me that UAV air-to-air capabilities aren't as well developed or deployed as I'd expect.

            UAVs for logistics? Some, but it doesn't seem to be as much as I'd expect. Ammunition is too heavy for current generation UAVs to move a meaniningful amount. But I think there's plenty of opportunity for UAVs to move food parcels, medical components, limited amounts of technical components, and limited amounts of water. I suspect that UAVs are under-utilized for this purpose, but I don't have access to battlefield data to understand risk/reward tradeoffs here.

            Then, for ground:

            UGVs for fire suppression? Some, but not much. Small little rovers mostly and the ones I've seen in public videos seem much more mechanically complicated than a UAV. The biggest limitation here might be fuel or power. Knowing the current state of computer vision, and given that a ground vehicle can be a spectacularly stable platform from which to fire a gun, and a computer can aim quite quickly and precisely from a calibrated and stable platform, I think that unmanned ground vehicles are significantly under-utilized and/or under-developed especially in defensive capabilities.

            UGVs for ground-to-air? Significantly less than I expect.

            UGVs for ground logistics? Not really much at all. I suppose the amount of materiel (fairly insignificant) they can move around is not worth the cost to build/maintain.

            And, for sea:

            USVs for naval combat? Less in total numbers than I expect, but the ones I do see seem to have an outsized impact and are far more sophisticated than I expect when compared to other types of unmanned vehicles I see. It seems (from my perspective) that navies have invested significantly into unmanned vehicle capabilities.

            • dmos623 days ago
              Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Interesting read. If you wrote a more detailed piece with more speculation, I'd love to read it.
              • inetknght3 days ago
                More speculation, more research, and with citations, and that would take a couple of weeks at least. Then it's not really something I'd want to put online for free nor for all sides to see.
    • Freedom25 days ago
      Could you clarify what this means? Is this some inside HackerNews reference I'm unaware of?
      • malwrar5 days ago
        Starcraft is a real-time strategy game, and Zerg is one of three factions you can play in the game. Zerg units are individually weak but cheap compared to the other factions, so Zerg players typically compose swarms of disposable units when staging and conducting attacks. It’s also quicker to make large swarms, since there isn’t a sequential build queue for Zerg unit construction. It makes for a pretty interesting switch in mindset compared to the other sides, where there is much more emphasis on preserving one’s units. Some of the more obnoxious strategies, like the Zerg rush, have become memes among gamers.
        • NickC255 days ago
          >Zerg units are individually weak but cheap compared to the other factions

          And fast. So. fucking. fast.

          I hate playing against Zerg.

      • nntwozz5 days ago
        This is also apt:

        The term "Zerg Rush", or "zerging", is now commonly used to describe sacrificing economic development in favor of using many cheap, yet weak units to overwhelm an enemy by attrition or sheer numbers.

        — Wikipedia

      • ziddoap5 days ago
        It's a StarCraft reference.

        https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Zerg

        "The Zerg Swarm is a terrifying and ruthless amalgamation of biologically advanced, arthropodal aliens. [...] They are named "the Swarm" per their ability to rapidly create strains, and the relentless assaults they employ to overwhelm their foes."

      • jdaodjsi5 days ago
        This is one of the three main factions in StarCraft. Think hiveminds and bugs.
      • bluSCALE45 days ago
        Zerg is a playable race in the game Starcraft. They are bio units where everything you build is biological.
    • eyvindn5 days ago
      could you link the drone swarm command article?
    • more_corn5 days ago
      Drone swarm is tos just sayin.
      • tehjoker5 days ago
        Don't forget swarm hosts ;)
    • 5 days ago
      undefined
  • pinoy4205 days ago
    [dead]
  • dimator5 days ago
    [flagged]
    • 92834092325 days ago
      Any department that is responsible for paying Elon Musk has a better chance than others that stand in his way. USAID was investigating musk and CFPB were in the way of his X Pay nonsense. He gets a lot of money from the DoD so if anything they will have their budget increased.